Once Upon It Was Possible to Discuss Theology On This Board

19,507 Views | 248 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Cyprian
Wade_3
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AG
quote:
Maybe...I personally would have no interest in a discussion about what the Koran teaches on any given subject....including the murder of Christians.


Maybe you should read it since the Quran doesn't view Christians or Jews as Infidels, rather as 'Ahl Al-Kitab.

Btw, do you know what Islam's stance on Jesus is?
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
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You guys should try leaving a thread like that alone to see if it stays on topic. Like I said RMH and Sapper, never gave that one a chance.
Sure. I'll just sit back and let you guys discuss exactly how and when you can say and do terrible things to me. Sorry for interrupting that.
I don't think I've ever done anything close to that and there are many Christians on this board who would interrupt someone advocating violence toward homosexuals.

Do you not think a discussion about what Paul says regarding acceptance of homosexuality is a valid topic for a religion board? If it is a valid topic why not let that discussion play out? RMH starts the whole thing off with wishing it wasn't a big deal. But, what Paul says is a big deal to Christians. Then Sapper jumps in and intentionally tries to derail the thread by asking what Paul says on many other topics in a lame attempt to invalidate what Paul says on the thread topic.

Why do you or RMH or Sapper care what Paul says?
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
quote:
Maybe...I personally would have no interest in a discussion about what the Koran teaches on any given subject....including the murder of Christians.


Maybe you should read it. Btw, do you know what Islam's stance on Jesus is?
Why should I read it? Why would I care what Islam's stance on Jesus is?
JimLeahy
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I don't there's any thread anybody shouldn't be able to comment on. For the most part your theological threads are left alone. I'm really not sympathetic however that a thread meant to theologically discuss how icky gays are got interrupted. I have no doubt other threads have had poor posters adding nothing. It's the internet. In 2002 the entire internet was tamer.

I'm not crying about posters chasing me around calling my views invalid because they think I'm Tyson. It is what it is. I'm not crying aboutv mqb or Chuckd turning any conversation about secular humanism into nihilism our that we don't know anything.
JimLeahy
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quote:
quote:
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You guys should try leaving a thread like that alone to see if it stays on topic. Like I said RMH and Sapper, never gave that one a chance.
Sure. I'll just sit back and let you guys discuss exactly how and when you can say and do terrible things to me. Sorry for interrupting that.
I don't think I've ever done anything close to that and there are many Christians on this board who would interrupt someone advocating violence toward homosexuals.

Do you not think a discussion about what Paul says regarding acceptance of homosexuality is a valid topic for a religion board? If it is a valid topic why not let that discussion play out? RMH starts the whole thing off with wishing it wasn't a big deal. But, what Paul says is a big deal to Christians. Then Sapper jumps in and intentionally tries to derail the thread by asking what Paul says on many other topics in a lame attempt to invalidate what Paul says on the thread topic.

Why do you or RMH or Sapper care what Paul says?


I think sapper contributed excellently by asking why Paul's opinion on homosexuality matters while his approval of slavery is ignored.
Wade_3
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AG
Because it will challenge your pre-conceived notions.

quote:
Quranic term referring to Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans as possessors of books previously revealed by God. Sometimes applied to Zoroastrians, Magians, and Samaritans. The books associated with Jews and Christians are the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels, all of which are recognized by the Quran as God's revelation, although the Quran declares that they were abrogated and superseded by Muhammad 's book since they were corrupted.


and

quote:
The Quran recognizes the special relationship of Jews with God and grants both Jews and Christians a special legal status in Muslim communities as dhimmis (protected scriptural minorities), permitting them to practice their faith, defend themselves from external aggressions, and govern their own communities in return for paying a special tax (jizyah).

http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e74
Wade_3
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AG
quote:
I think sapper contributed excellently by asking why Paul's opinion on homosexuality matters while his approval of slavery is ignored.


This is a valid point and I am very curious why an answer hasn't been posited. Normally it is ignored or swept under the rug.
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
quote:
Well then, in your view, there's never a reason for you to stay out of a Christian thread. Nearly all of religion has to do with how one should behave.
There are plenty of religious threads for me to stay out of. Jim linked one earlier. The OP in the thread you linked chose to make people like me the topic. When threads deal with issues that apply to people outside your church as well, they're no longer purely theological. I'd say the same if the thread had been about divorce, if such a topic ever actually got any attention/traction around here.
Your just saying that you'll stay out of topics that don't interest you. That's fine.

But, you are derailing threads by doing what RMH and Sapper did in the one I linked. If that's objective, mission accomplished. If serious discussion was the objective that quoting Paul would have been the better route.
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
You guys should try leaving a thread like that alone to see if it stays on topic. Like I said RMH and Sapper, never gave that one a chance.
Sure. I'll just sit back and let you guys discuss exactly how and when you can say and do terrible things to me. Sorry for interrupting that.
I don't think I've ever done anything close to that and there are many Christians on this board who would interrupt someone advocating violence toward homosexuals.

Do you not think a discussion about what Paul says regarding acceptance of homosexuality is a valid topic for a religion board? If it is a valid topic why not let that discussion play out? RMH starts the whole thing off with wishing it wasn't a big deal. But, what Paul says is a big deal to Christians. Then Sapper jumps in and intentionally tries to derail the thread by asking what Paul says on many other topics in a lame attempt to invalidate what Paul says on the thread topic.

Why do you or RMH or Sapper care what Paul says?


I think sapper contributed excellently by asking why Paul's opinion on homosexuality matters while his approval of slavery is ignored.
Well of course you do. It was an attempt to derail the thread and it worked. If Sapper wanted to discuss Paul's stance on other topics he should have started a new thread.
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
quote:
I think sapper contributed excellently by asking why Paul's opinion on homosexuality matters while his approval of slavery is ignored.


This is a valid point and I am very curious why an answer hasn't been posited. Normally it is ignored or swept under the rug.
Then start a thread on it.
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
Because it will challenge your pre-conceived notions.

quote:
Quranic term referring to Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans as possessors of books previously revealed by God. Sometimes applied to Zoroastrians, Magians, and Samaritans. The books associated with Jews and Christians are the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels, all of which are recognized by the Quran as God's revelation, although the Quran declares that they were abrogated and superseded by Muhammad 's book since they were corrupted.


and

quote:
The Quran recognizes the special relationship of Jews with God and grants both Jews and Christians a special legal status in Muslim communities as dhimmis (protected scriptural minorities), permitting them to practice their faith, defend themselves from external aggressions, and govern their own communities in return for paying a special tax (jizyah).

http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e74

I'm not interested in reading the Book Of Mormon either so I fail to see your point. And, I would love to know what you think are my pre-conceived notions.
Wade_3
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AG
Here is one of your pre-conceived notions:

quote:
Maybe...I personally would have no interest in a discussion about what the Koran teaches on any given subject....including the murder of Christians.
Also, it seems strange that you are interested in the Old Testament which reads like a genocide...Yet, no issues with that text.

Wonder why?
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
I don't there's any thread anybody shouldn't be able to comment on. For the most part your theological threads are left alone. I'm really not sympathetic however that a thread meant to theologically discuss how icky gays are got interrupted. I have no doubt other threads have had poor posters adding nothing. It's the internet. In 2002 the entire internet was tamer.

I'm not crying about posters chasing me around calling my views invalid because they think I'm Tyson. It is what it is. I'm not crying aboutv mqb or Chuckd turning any conversation about secular humanism into nihilism our that we don't know anything.
Of course not. Your run around trolling and get the exactly kind of conversation you're chasing.
Wade_3
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quote:
Of course not. Your run around trolling and get the exactly kind of conversation you're chasing.


In all honesty, it sounds like you want to have a conversation where nobody questions your views or holds you accountable for what you say/believe.
NonReg85
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AG
Nice try. I'm not biting.
Wade_3
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AG
Not biting on what?

The questions I've asked are fair questions. Can you not answer them?
Line up and wait 18L
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Martin Q. Blank
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permaban
Line up and wait 18L
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What happened?
Wade_3
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AG
What did PG do to get the banhammer?

I don't remember him being inflammatory.
Martin Q. Blank
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He started a thread on the politics board calling out staff. I can't remember the topic.
Knife_Party
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I think one of the things a few posters are failing to realize is that this is a religion and philosophy board. Both of these topics, like politics, are highly charged issues. Additionally, both religion and philosophy have long traditions of argument and debate. If you want to post somewhere where no one will ever disagree with your statements, you'd be better served leaving TexAgs and the internet in general.
Beer Baron
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quote:
I don't think I've ever done anything close to that and there are many Christians on this board who would interrupt someone advocating violence toward homosexuals.

I never said you had. "You" was a meant as in "participants in the conversation," and terrible things doesn't just include violence or advocating it. Look back on some of the notafraid classics from the good ol' days if you need an example.

quote:
Do you not think a discussion about what Paul says regarding acceptance of homosexuality is a valid topic for a religion board?

Sure. I don't know why you think other people who don't share yours or Paul's thoughts on the matter should just shut up and not join the conversation.

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If it is a valid topic why not let that discussion play out?

It did play out. With input from people who disagree with you. Again, it seems like you're just looking for an echo chamber here.

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RMH starts the whole thing off with wishing it wasn't a big deal. But, what Paul says is a big deal to Christians. Then Sapper jumps in and intentionally tries to derail the thread by asking what Paul says on many other topics in a lame attempt to invalidate what Paul says on the thread topic.

Is what Paul thinks on other topics not a valid topic for a religion forum?

quote:
Why do you or RMH or Sapper care what Paul says?
If his views were kept in churches and applied just to church members, I'd have no reason to care. However, his views absolutely influence how I'm treated by both society and under the law.
Line up and wait 18L
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NonReg85
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AG
I think it's less about who responds and whether or not they agree than it has to do with people purposely derailing threads. There are plenty of threads on here that are expressly started so that they can devolve into gotchas. I don't understand why it has to jump over to threads that were meant to be serious. To be fair, it's such a charged environment now that we probably can't tell the difference anymore with any degree of accuracy.
Beer Baron
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I guess you just have a much broader definition of hijacking than I do. I think if we're being asked to seriously consider someone's opinions of Subject X as having any kind validity, that person's thoughts on Subject Y are important both assessing their overall credibility and in giving their opinions some kind of context.
NonReg85
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AG
quote:
quote:


quote:
Quote:I don't think I've ever done anything close to that and there are many Christians on this board who would interrupt someone advocating violence toward homosexuals.
I never said you had. "You" was a meant as in "participants in the conversation," and terrible things doesn't just include violence or advocating it. Look back on some of the notafraid classics from the good ol' days if you need an example.

My point was only that there are many Christians who post on here that would not let a comment like that go unchallenged.

quote:
Quoteo you not think a discussion about what Paul says regarding acceptance of homosexuality is a valid topic for a religion board?
Sure. I don't know why you think other people who don't share yours or Paul's thoughts on the matter should just shut up and not join the conversation.

Well, the topic was, "what does Paul teach" There's plenty of room for disagreement on what Paul teaches on any given subject. If you want to discuss what he meant by a particular passage, or how a different passage provides context that changes the meaning of another, that would be great and on topic. Telling us why you disagree is off topic and derails the thread.

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Quote:If it is a valid topic why not let that discussion play out?
It did play out. With input from people who disagree with you. Again, it seems like you're just looking for an echo chamber here.

No. It derailed the thread. Again, the topic was, "What does Paul teach."

quote:
Quote:RMH starts the whole thing off with wishing it wasn't a big deal. But, what Paul says is a big deal to Christians. Then Sapper jumps in and intentionally tries to derail the thread by asking what Paul says on many other topics in a lame attempt to invalidate what Paul says on the thread topic.
Is what Paul thinks on other topics not a valid topic for a religion forum?

Of course it is. Start a new topic if you want to discuss it. You can even roll it all together by starting a topic like, "Paul has no credibility on any subject due to his views on slavery." I think that's fine.

quote:
Quote:Why do you or RMH or Sapper care what Paul says?
If his views were kept in churches and applied just to church members, I'd have no reason to care. However, his views absolutely influence how I'm treated by both society and under the law.

And, If that thread had veered off course to start discussing how you should be treated then, by all means, chime in. It was derailed right from the start. That's really my only issue with it.
JimLeahy
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quote:
I guess you just have a much broader definition of hijacking than I do. I think if we're being asked to seriously consider someone's opinions of Subject X as having any kind validity, that person's thoughts on Subject Y are important both assessing their overall credibility and in giving their opinions some kind of context.


This
Beer Baron
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AG
quote:
My point was only that there are many Christians who post on here that would not let a comment like that go unchallenged.
Some, for sure. I wouldn't say many. Read the old threads. There are often many Christians posting all around NA's comments. Condemnations for them are pretty few and far between. Generally craigernaught and Silent are the only ones I can think of who would actually challenge him on the way he treated people.

quote:
Well, the topic was, "what does Paul teach" There's plenty of room for disagreement on what Paul teaches on any given subject. If you want to discuss what he meant by a particular passage, or how a different passage provides context that changes the meaning of another, that would be great and on topic. Telling us why you disagree is off topic and derails the thread.
Again, I guess we disagree on what's relevant. I'm not sure why we're allowed to talk about what he said, but not why we disagree with what he said. I'll remember that next time there's a thread about Dawkins I guess. "Nope - no disagreements. Just talk about what he said." Again I don't see any way this isn't just asking for an echo chamber.

quote:
No. It derailed the thread. Again, the topic was, "What does Paul teach."
Same as above. If you want to confine everything to such a narrow scope you're going to get some pretty short, boring threads.

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Of course it is. Start a new topic if you want to discuss it. You can even roll it all together by starting a topic like, "Paul has no credibility on any subject due to his views on slavery." I think that's fine.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll just defer to my answers above. At any rate, even if we define this as a "derail," I still don't see how this is in any way worth the whining we see in the OP and throughout this thread.
quote:
And, If that thread had veered off course to start discussing how you should be treated then, by all means, chime in. It was derailed right from the start. That's really my only issue with it.
Sigh. Again, I disagree with your premise that this was a derail. You want to see a derail, look up literally any thread Top Hat ever posted on. We could all be sitting around talking about our favorite cereal, and he'd swoop in and talk about how Trix are a tool of the leftist liberal agenda sent by the devil to turn children into gay rabbit-worshiping heathens. THAT's a derail. Asking related questions, providing context, and rebutting sources isn't a derail.

And how many posts are we allowed before the subject of the discussion has changed enough that we can talk about other things? Does a Christian have to open that door? If a Christian moves it toward how you should treat gay people, then I'm allowed to speak? Basically, if a Christian derails first, I can finally join in? Until then I have to just keep my mouth shut?

You seem like a fairly reasonable guy. You should understand how this sounds.
JimLeahy
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quote:
quote:
I don't there's any thread anybody shouldn't be able to comment on. For the most part your theological threads are left alone. I'm really not sympathetic however that a thread meant to theologically discuss how icky gays are got interrupted. I have no doubt other threads have had poor posters adding nothing. It's the internet. In 2002 the entire internet was tamer.

I'm not crying about posters chasing me around calling my views invalid because they think I'm Tyson. It is what it is. I'm not crying aboutv mqb or Chuckd turning any conversation about secular humanism into nihilism our that we don't know anything.
Of course not. Your run around trolling and get the exactly kind of conversation you're chasing.


I think we have very different definitions of trolling. For instance I've been perfectly amicable this thread and this is the attitude you speak to me with. This isn't the kind of conversation I'm chasing.

Woody2006
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AG
quote:
quote:
This thread makes me yawn


http://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2549454/last#r41037214
I was seriously just about to post this. I clicked on it for the first time just now, just to see if there were an example of all this theology-hijacking taking place over there. Nope, just boring Bible talk that I couldn't possibly care less about. No posts by Jim, meso, Woody, or any of the other big bad atheists. Just Christians discussing their book and talking about stuff I genuinely have no reason to argue about.
I know big bad atheist was meant sardonically here, but I kinda feel like it gives me street cred.
Silent For Too Long
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quote:
Those were all of off one thread...But yes, what I say is exactly on par with that. Or maybe you don't like my arguments and how I present them, I can respect that. Some people don't like bluntness.
You are confusing arrogance, condescension, and hubris, with being blunt. It's possible to plainly state something without constantly elevating your self perception over others.

Also, I have never once stated that I support anything Tophat has posted. I'm not sure why you would have the impression that he's "my buddy," other then your rather foolish tendency to lump all believers into one narrowly perceived category.
Wade_3
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AG
Bro, don't hide your support of tophat. Just own it. Lying about it is kind of sad.
Wade_3
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AG
Oh, and there are a ton of great Christian posters on this board. Retiredag, 747 and craigernaught are just a few.

You, na, tophat and Thaddeus don't fall in to that category.
JimLeahy
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Silent is a good guy and you'll find more common ground with him than you expect. You've both gone after each other a bit. Give him a chance.
 
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