Friedrich Nietzsche, The Parable of the Madman (1882)

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Notafraid
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THE MADMAN
Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!" -- As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated? -- Thus they yelled and laughed.
The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him -- you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars -- and yet they have done it themselves.

It has been related further that on the same day the madman forced his way into several churches and there struck up his requiem aeternam deo. Led out and called to account, he is said always to have replied nothing but: "What after all are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?"

[Source: Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science (1882, 1887) para. 125; Walter Kaufmann ed. (New York: Vintage, 1974), pp.181-82.]

agforlife97
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AG
Here he is talking about the guilt that people in the modern world felt for no longer believing in god. He is also implicitly criticizing them for such guilt, ridiculing them for not understanding that not believing in god meant a liberation from guilt. His actor says he's before his time, because the people have not thrown off these vestiges of christianity.
Guadaloop474
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"God is dead" - Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882

"Nietzsche is dead" - God, 1900
Notafraid
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I think Nietzsche got kind of a bad rap. Especially since Hitler took some of his thinking and militarized it into the super human. Nietzsche was lamenting the loss of God in culture. He was shocking culture with his 'madman'.
Guadaloop474
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When you expel God from your life, as he did, you cannot expect to come to a good end..The other side is only too happy to jump in and take over...
agforlife97
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AG
Notafraid - he was not lamenting the loss of god in culture at all. He ranted and raved against the atheist mainstream for not getting rid of vestiges of christianity like humanism. I think he did get a bad rap in some ways, but the downsides to his world view are rather clear after the Nazis I think.
Derrida
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He was complex and Cynic is correct in interpreting his rant. Nazi's misapplied him for their own abuse.

His was a belief that knowledge was not attainable. Simply stated that is.
Notafraid
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God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?


His argument is that without the Christian worldview to give value to things that no absolute values could be determined, and that it would lead to nihilism. He was right in that… He then spent his efforts to try and find a replacement. He came up with the theory of “the will to power”. He believed the main driving force in man was achievement, ambition, striving to reach the highest possible position in life, etc… So you can see how Germany embodied this pure humanism, this super-man romanticism of the nature of man. At this point, It seems his work was unnecessary, because most godless people give meaning to their life by things like getting tattoos, being part of a gay community, or a some kind of community, being an environmentalist, being a political supporter, being an Aggie, etc…

Anything to give them meaning and significance to their otherwise meaningless lives. It’s a relative grounding, without an abandonment of many Christian values. There was no need to be a nihilist, if all you needed to do was be in a formerly Christian dominated culture, and you could hold to some amount of it’s values while denying where they came from.

In other words, all one has to be is a bit of a inconsistant dumb arse to be a modern athiest.

This is not enough for a very few who are real intellectuals. I would argue that the truly intellectual ones are nihilists. Nietzsche was right in his first analysis!



[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 2/6/2012 1:07p).]
agforlife97
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AG
quote:
I would argue that the truly intellectual ones are nihilists.


Perhaps, but I think the existentialists that followed took Nietzsche's thought into a more positive direction. They argue that existence precedes essence, and so individual humans have the power to create their own meaning. From this perspective, many everyday things people worry about certainly appear frivolous.
Mrs. Lovelight
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quote:
They argue that existence precedes essence, and so individual humans have the power to create their own meaning.


But at some point even the meaning they create themselves lose meaning...when you toss out universals even particulars lose meaning, basically a house of cards...
agforlife97
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AG
quote:
But at some point even the meaning they create themselves lose meaning...when you toss out universals even particulars lose meaning, basically a house of cards...


The struggle with meaninglessness is a basic feature of the human condition. Developing belief systems to avoid it is but one way of coping with the problem of having to stare into the abyss.
Notafraid
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Lovelight
Notafraid
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AgCynic2,

quote:
The struggle with meaninglessness is a basic feature of the human condition. Developing belief systems to avoid it is but one way of coping with the problem of having to stare into the abyss


Those are your worldviews problems, not ours.
Still, I want to commend you for not only proving again that you are the intellectual superior to your unbelieving brethren around here, but you are also proving to be one of the most honest. You are indeed a rarity!

Now if I were only so smart, I would stop wasting my day on Texags!

[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 2/6/2012 1:38p).]
Mrs. Lovelight
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quote:
The struggle with meaninglessness is a basic feature of the human condition.


I think it's more a struggle w/finding purpose not necessarily meaninglessness. I think when you don't really have a foundation to build on other than your own internals then yes you will struggle to find meaning and purpose. This is the result of tossing aside universals.

quote:
Developing belief systems to avoid it is but one way of coping with the problem of having to stare into the abyss.


I think that's a very cynical point of view, I see my belief system (christianity) as a foundation on which I find purpose and meaning and then proceed to build my life on. I could not find meaning by looking for the answers w/in myself I don't have the answers but I know who does.

edit-I should explain Christ is my ultimate foundation and my christianity is the out flowing of my belief in Christ. I just wanted to clarify my statement there...



[This message has been edited by Mrs. Lovelight (edited 2/6/2012 1:47p).]
Derrida
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Here is a good overview of Nietzsche.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche/

How can one not see the nihilist in Nietzsche?
agforlife97
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AG
quote:
I think that's a very cynical point of view, I see my belief system (christianity) as a foundation on which I find purpose and meaning and then proceed to build my life on.


I believe it to be a honest point of view, though I agree that it could be the basis for behaving in a cynical manner (as we have established in this thread, I think).
Mrs. Lovelight
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AgCynic,

You don't have to subject yourself to such cynicism you know...
yesno
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Perhaps, but I think the existentialists that followed took Nietzsche's thought into a more positive direction.
*******************
Following WW2 and the destruction of much of Europe, there emerged what became known as the "3rd Force" in psychiatry.
They were against the determinism of both the Freudians and the Behaviorists, and believed people had an amazing capacity of finding meaning, even in meaningless circumstances (such as a concentration camp or serving in the army).
They called themselves "existentialists" and believed greatly in personal responsibility and personal freedom. Many of them were Jewish.
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