Adnan Syed hearing(2/3/2015) - Serial

6,803 Views | 46 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by jeffdjohnson
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Hearing started yesterday with Asia McLean as the new witness that could help him get his new trial.

I am making my way through Undisclosed currently. I was really late to the Serial party.
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
there is also a new Serial episode covering it
jeffdjohnson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This dude is guilty.

For some reason Sara Koening glossed over the fact that Jay knew exactly where Hae Lee's car was hidden. That single fact ties Jay directly to this murder. So we are left with believing that either Jay did this by himself to frame Adnan or that Adnan did it and Jay helped cover it up. There is no third "grassy knoll" killer here.

All of the timeline discrepancies (which I don't think even the prosecution knows exactly how/where/when it happened) and Best Buy phone booth theories are a smoke screen. At some point that Friday Adnan shows up with Hae Lee's body in the trunk. She didn't accidentally strangle herself and fall in the trunk. Then Jay helped bury her and they were eventually caught.
'03ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
This dude is guilty.

For some reason Sara Koening glossed over the fact that Jay knew exactly where Hae Lee's car was hidden. That single fact ties Jay directly to this murder.
She didn't gloss over it at all. I just finished the series a week ago and she mentioned it multiple times. Except as I remember the car wasn't hidden. It was just abandoned in the middle of a bad neighborhood. There are all sorts of ways Jay could've known where it was without either him or Adnan being involved.

I don't have a strong feeling either way on his guilt or innocence, but I hope I'm never convicted of murder on the evidence the state presented.

I remember on one of the last podcasts that the group of lawyers she was working with wanted to get some DNA tested against some other guy that they had committed other murders. Do I have that right, there was DNA under her nails that hasn't been tested yet? Surely if they grant him a new trial that will get tested against his straight away.
TajMaballer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG


Little bit of crazy in his eyes there
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
have you listened to undiclosed?

its slanted for sure. But there is a lot of factual information in there that makes the case look very sketchy.

I am not saying I know he is innocent. But the fact that they convicted him is insane.

Jay is all they had for evidence. Thats IT.

And he lied over and over and over. Changed his story drastically multiple times.

He should have been impeached as a witness.


MW13
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:


Little bit of crazy in his eyes there

Good to see Carl Winslow is still on the force.
'03ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I haven't listened to it precisely because everyone keeps saying it's heavily biased. I figure Serial was biased enough, I don't want to hear something even moreso. I'm skeptical of the states case as it is, and I'm of the opinion that in America, guilty people are sometimes supposed to go free.
mid90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm sure his fellow inmates love him. They're all inmocent, but only ue gets a new trial.
jeffdjohnson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Jay is all they had for evidence. Thats IT.


The location of Hae Lee's vehicle is a huge piece of evidence. Again, I don't understand why this continues to be glossed over by Sarah Koening or the defense. Jay knew the location of the the abandoned/hidden vehicle. That fact directly ties him to this murder case. Adnan and Jay were seen together by multiple witnesses on the night in question. That fact directly ties Adnan and Jay together.

Unless someone can give a logical reason how Jay knew the location of an abandoned/hidden murder victim's vehicle then there is no question in my mind that he (and Adnan by proxy) was involved.

Does the "Undisclosed" podcast explain a police conspiracy where the detectives come across a murder victim's vehicle, don't document it, determine that they will frame Adnan Syed, pick up his friend Jay and convince him to lie about being involved in a homicide? Is there a shred of evidence to any such conspiracy? At some point Occam's Razor needs to come into play.
Mikeyshooter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Unless someone can give a logical reason how Jay knew the location of an abandoned/hidden murder victim's vehicle then there is no question in my mind that he (and Adnan by proxy) was involved.

Does the "Undisclosed" podcast explain a police conspiracy where the detectives come across a murder victim's vehicle, don't document it, determine that they will frame Adnan Syed, pick up his friend Jay and convince him to lie about being involved in a homicide? Is there a shred of evidence to any such conspiracy? At some point Occam's Razor needs to come into play.
They do bring up some interesting points regarding some photos taken at the crime scene. The car was missing for about 6 weeks I believe and was found in a grassy lot in a bad part of town. There are photos of the vehicle that show green grass under the car along with green grass in the tire treads.

If a car has not moved for 6 weeks in the dead of winter, how would the grass under the car even be alive? Also, the car has been rained on, snowed on, and sat out in the elements for weeks. How is there grass in the tire treads? Nothing about the car makes sense.

Undisclosed played a lot more of Jay's interviews than Serial. You can hear obvious tapping from the cops when Jay gets part of the story wrong which Jay even apologizes for sometimes. Also you hear Jay thinking about not being able to remember details and then out of the blue it comes to him. That happens many times about details that he would have remembered if they were true.
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
yep. all of the Jay stuff is absolute garbage if you hear all of his interviews. Like I said, anything he says should be taken as nothing. He should have been impeached as a witness. He literally lied about his entire story multiple times.

The cops didnt want to impeach him. he was all they had.
hunter2012
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think he's guilty, but there is no where near enough evidence to convict...
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
I think he's guilty, but there is no where near enough evidence to convict...
this is pretty much where I am at. there is basically no evidence at all.

I dont think he is for sure guilty though..but yeah...seems likely.
tamusc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
quote:
I think he's guilty, but there is no where near enough evidence to convict...
this is pretty much where I am at. there is basically no evidence at all.

I dont think he is for sure guilty though..but yeah...seems likely.
I agree and wasn't that Sarah Koenig's conclusion too?
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
pretty much..but she also left a lot of evidence out.

on Undisclosed(and yes, its heavily biased) there are a lot more facts and pieces of evidence that are revealed. Things that were never mentioned at trial, or in Serial.

No matter the bias, Undisclosed is geared to show you how FOS Jay is, and how much he should not be considered a witness. Its so important because as you know, he is the entire case.

Undisclosed shows you that at a minimum, Adnan should never have been convicted.

The Asia Mclean stuff could end up exonerating him if it can be proved. Shes more credible at this point than Jay anyways.
TajMaballer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Reddit feed for anyone interested!
Joe Cole
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If I was Adnan, I would be going for a different look with concerns to facial hair and what not
COOL LASER FALCON
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'm guessing they are going for the opposite and are going to hit the Islamaphobia angle hard this time.
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
anyone following the hearing?

I am. I bet he gets a new trial. This is going to be awesome.
M.C. Swag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Can't wait for OPs thread about Making a Murderer this time next year
gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Can't wait for OPs thread about Making a Murderer this time next year
okay, I laughed
jeffdjohnson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
They do bring up some interesting points regarding some photos taken at the crime scene. The car was missing for about 6 weeks I believe and was found in a grassy lot in a bad part of town. There are photos of the vehicle that show green grass under the car along with green grass in the tire treads.

If a car has not moved for 6 weeks in the dead of winter, how would the grass under the car even be alive? Also, the car has been rained on, snowed on, and sat out in the elements for weeks. How is there grass in the tire treads? Nothing about the car makes sense.


I just googled the image and it seems extremely inconclusive of anything. For the record, the defense wants me to believe that the police moved this vehicle? What possible motive could there be for such a thing? If they are planning to frame Adnan by having Jay "discover" this vehicle then why would the location even be relevant?

So I must either believe in a police conspiracy where they contaminated a murder victim's vehicle/crime scene then pointlessly moved it (a risky move for no reasonable gain). Then coerced Jay into involving himself with a homicide case with no known leverage. Thereby framing Adnan while never actually investigating who the "real killer" was.

Or maybe that is just what a car looks like when sitting out at this particular lot for ~6 weeks in December of 1999. I'm guessing Undisclosed didn't ask what angle the picture was taken from, what the orientation of the car was, what angle the sun rises from at that geographical location, what strain of grass is located at the lot, how resilient the grass is or how far under the vehicle sunlight would reach. Sometimes it is easier to just throw **** against the wall and hope something sticks.
Rudyjax
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
A. I think he did it.
B. Gutierrez was incompetent at the time.

KDS PR man
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I use to find the Serial Podcast fascinating, now I just see the entire situation as really sad. Adnan is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Serial mentions how Adnan was never possessive and reads a part of Hae's diary to back that up. However, literally 3 lines above that Hae says he was possessive. The Podcast Undisclosed is a shameful, disgusting propaganda machine working directly for Sayed's defense team. Rabia is a vile creature and Susan Simpson and the Evidence Profs are known liars. They could care less about seeking justice for Hae (the stated goal) and instead are only focused on poking holes in the state's case and finding technicalities to release Adan.

Undisclosed had a monopoly on the case files and would release HEAVILY edited documents to fit their theories. For instance, Undisclosed spent two episodes explaining that "Cathy" was remembering the wrong day when Jay and Adnan went to her house. Evidence Prof backed this up by sparsing her words when Cathy said she remembered because she had just returned from a conference. Prof looked at records and said there was not a conference, but a convention that week so it couldn't be that day. However, someone on Reddit spent a few hundred dollars to make copies of Rabia's files and released the entire interview. Low and behold two paragraphs down "Cathy" also remembers that day because Jay was talking about how it was Stephanie's birthday that day. After this came to light Rabia claimed there was a mole in the Prosecutor's office. She is totally paranoid. That is just one of MANY examples of lies Undisclosed has out forth. Other examples:

1) At first the three stooges thought it was Jay who did it until they realized if it was Jay then Adnan had to be involved.
2) Next theory was Hae got caught up in a drug deal gone bad because Rabia released a statement from her diary referencing drugs, she failed to mention that the context was about boys, not taking drugs.
3) Next theory was Jay was coerced and they released a poor quality audio of his interview and claimed the "tap, tap" noises was police pointing out what to say.
4) Next theory was Hae's new boyfriend Don did it.

The list goes on and on. The state's case was by no means perfect, indeed it was based heavily on circumstantial evidence. You may be able to explain evidence individually, but taken together it makes a pretty compelling case.

Hae described Adnan as possessive
She would hide from him at school and have teachers tell Adnan she wasn't there
Jay said he saw Hae in the trunck of her car
Jay said he helped Adnan bury Hae
Jay said he helped stash Hae's car
Jay described what Hae was wearing that day
Jay said Adnan told him she broke the turn signal (which turned out to be broken)
Jay said Adnan said he strangled Hae, which was the cause of the death
Jay knew where the car was
Jay's best friend Jen told the police (with a lawyer and her mom by her side) that Jay told her everything the night of the murder and she helped dispose of his clothes and shovels. Why would Jen, a smart college student, implicate herself or be coerced by the police with a lawyer by her side? This is how the cops found jay. Jen was the first person they talked to and really cracked the case for them.
Two people witnessed Adnan ask Hae for a ride
Adnan admitted to the police officer who called him the day she went missing that he asked for a ride
Adnan later denied asking for a ride.
Jay claimed they had to rush back to school so Adnan could talk to his talk to his coach as an alibi
Coach later confirmed Adnan was really quiet usually except for that day.
His phone pinged Lincoln Park when Jay said they were burying the body.
He was unconcerned Hae was missing. She went missing on a Wednesday and the cops called him looking for her. There was no school the rest of the week and Adnan went to a party on Friday and never mentioned to anyone that Hae was missing.
He called her house 3 times around midnight the night before she went missing. Because of secrecy from both sets of parents they would never do that. He would always page her. He seemed very upset about Hae's new boyfriend.

This is just some of the circumstantial evidence pointing to Adnan having committed the crime. Taken together it is a very strong case in my opinion. True, Jay is a poor witness but only the whack jobs at Undisclosed have claimed massive police conspiracy. If he does get a new trial his defense team will not attack the police for corruption because there is simply no evidence.
RebAg13
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
A. I think he did it.
B. Gutierrez was incompetent at the time.


gigemJTH12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
I use to find the Serial Podcast fascinating, now I just see the entire situation as really sad. Adnan is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Serial mentions how Adnan was never possessive and reads a part of Hae's diary to back that up. However, literally 3 lines above that Hae says he was possessive. The Podcast Undisclosed is a shameful, disgusting propaganda machine working directly for Sayed's defense team. Rabia is a vile creature and Susan Simpson and the Evidence Profs are known liars. They could care less about seeking justice for Hae (the stated goal) and instead are only focused on poking holes in the state's case and finding technicalities to release Adan.

Undisclosed had a monopoly on the case files and would release HEAVILY edited documents to fit their theories. For instance, Undisclosed spent two episodes explaining that "Cathy" was remembering the wrong day when Jay and Adnan went to her house. Evidence Prof backed this up by sparsing her words when Cathy said she remembered because she had just returned from a conference. Prof looked at records and said there was not a conference, but a convention that week so it couldn't be that day. However, someone on Reddit spent a few hundred dollars to make copies of Rabia's files and released the entire interview. Low and behold two paragraphs down "Cathy" also remembers that day because Jay was talking about how it was Stephanie's birthday that day. After this came to light Rabia claimed there was a mole in the Prosecutor's office. She is totally paranoid. That is just one of MANY examples of lies Undisclosed has out forth. Other examples:

1) At first the three stooges thought it was Jay who did it until they realized if it was Jay then Adnan had to be involved.
2) Next theory was Hae got caught up in a drug deal gone bad because Rabia released a statement from her diary referencing drugs, she failed to mention that the context was about boys, not taking drugs.
3) Next theory was Jay was coerced and they released a poor quality audio of his interview and claimed the "tap, tap" noises was police pointing out what to say.
4) Next theory was Hae's new boyfriend Don did it.

The list goes on and on. The state's case was by no means perfect, indeed it was based heavily on circumstantial evidence. You may be able to explain evidence individually, but taken together it makes a pretty compelling case.

Hae described Adnan as possessive
She would hide from him at school and have teachers tell Adnan she wasn't there
Jay said he saw Hae in the trunck of her car
Jay said he helped Adnan bury Hae
Jay said he helped stash Hae's car
Jay described what Hae was wearing that day
Jay said Adnan told him she broke the turn signal (which turned out to be broken)
Jay said Adnan said he strangled Hae, which was the cause of the death
Jay knew where the car was
Jay's best friend Jen told the police (with a lawyer and her mom by her side) that Jay told her everything the night of the murder and she helped dispose of his clothes and shovels. Why would Jen, a smart college student, implicate herself or be coerced by the police with a lawyer by her side? This is how the cops found jay. Jen was the first person they talked to and really cracked the case for them.
Two people witnessed Adnan ask Hae for a ride
Adnan admitted to the police officer who called him the day she went missing that he asked for a ride
Adnan later denied asking for a ride.
Jay claimed they had to rush back to school so Adnan could talk to his talk to his coach as an alibi
Coach later confirmed Adnan was really quiet usually except for that day.
His phone pinged Lincoln Park when Jay said they were burying the body.
He was unconcerned Hae was missing. She went missing on a Wednesday and the cops called him looking for her. There was no school the rest of the week and Adnan went to a party on Friday and never mentioned to anyone that Hae was missing.
He called her house 3 times around midnight the night before she went missing. Because of secrecy from both sets of parents they would never do that. He would always page her. He seemed very upset about Hae's new boyfriend.

This is just some of the circumstantial evidence pointing to Adnan having committed the crime. Taken together it is a very strong case in my opinion. True, Jay is a poor witness but only the whack jobs at Undisclosed have claimed massive police conspiracy. If he does get a new trial his defense team will not attack the police for corruption because there is simply no evidence.
there is no conviction evidence either. Just Jays testimony. And Jay has lied countless times. He may very well be guilty, but he never should have been convicted.

As slanted as Undisclosed is, you are just as slanted. There are so many holes in this case. Nothing like the case you portray in your post.
Joe Cole
How long do you want to ignore this user?
good point on the Islam angle

He will probably end up going free
KDS PR man
How long do you want to ignore this user?
How am I just as slanted at Undisclosed? Nothing I posted is a wild conspiracy theory and nothing I posted is a lie. Everything I posted was introduced during the trial. The jury looked at all the evidence and found him guilty in 2 hours. Countless appeals have confirmed as much. Jay was on the stand facing a grueling cross examination for 5 days and the Jury still believed the spine of his story. I admit Jay is a terrible witness and there are holes in the case, but what case is perfect? I guess my point is I am past the point of wondering if he should have been convicted based on a technicality (which is exactly what this appeal is, a last Hail Mary attempt). He killed this girl by manual strangulation and a technicality should not set him free. Now if DNA evidence shows he didn't do it then I will admit I was wrong, however, there is DNA that can be tested that Adnan and his team haven't tested yet. They say it is for strategic reasons but I never heard of an innocent man not wanting to test DNA evidence. Heck even Steven Avery wants more DNA in his case tested.
Presley OBannons Sword
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
I'm guessing they are going for the opposite and are going to hit the Islamaphobia angle hard this time.
that's all it should take in America today. make him a victim of the white man, and he will get off.
bagger05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think Adnan definitely did it.

However there has to be a reason that Jay lied and I think he was more involved than he ever admitted.

There was a reason he helped Adnan bury the body and he wouldn't have done it if Adnan didn't have some kind of leverage over him. Most types of leverage would have been simple to explain and wouldn't give Jay cause to change his story. If Adnan had a gun and said "help me or I'll kill you" he would've told the cops that and the truth about what happened. If Adnan said "help me or I'll kill Stephanie" then Jay would've told the cops that and the truth about what happened. It is clear that Jay lied to the police, but we don't know why. He didn't lie for no reason. He was protecting himself or someone else.

My crazy theory is that Jay was the one who initially put the idea in Adnan's head about killing Hae. Maybe it was because Adnan wanted to prove himself in the eyes of Jay's drug suppliers so he could start dealing. Maybe they were getting high one day and Adnan was sad or angry about Hae and in a drug influenced state Jay said, "Well s##t, man (puff, puff, exhale) maybe you should kill her." Not even meaning it and just having a philosophical high conversation -- then when Adnan showed up with a dead body in his car he was able to say "Dude this was YOUR idea. You HAVE to help me."
GoAgs92
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
How often does Adnan say, "Jay is totally lying that SOB...MFer...wtf!!!! I don't know where he got that BS!"

I don't remember him ever going off on Jay.

Adnan isn't even mad at Jay, which is pretty weird.
Rudyjax
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I wish I could find it. I looked for a bit on Reddit where I read it.

There is a question that Christina G asks Jen.

And that question alone shows how incompetent she was.

bagger05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
How often does Adnan say, "Jay is totally lying that SOB...MFer...wtf!!!! I don't know where he got that BS!"

I don't remember him ever going off on Jay.

Adnan isn't even mad at Jay, which is pretty weird.
That's another big clue in the whole thing. Jay is obviously lying, but the truth does NOTHING to cast any doubt on Adnan's guilt. If it did, then Adnan would roll on him. The details of Jay's involvement must provide MORE evidence of Adnan's guilt which is why Adnan has nothing to say about Jay.
jeffdjohnson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I don't know what people wanted Christina Guitierrez to do. Build a time machine and tell Adnan not to choke out his ex girlfriend? It is hard to win a case when you are defending a murderer. Not everyone can pull a Johnny Cochran.

This is a very strong circumstantial case. Unfortunately the only people who actually witnessed Hae Lee's murder were Adnan and Hae. The prosecution attempted to piece together a murder timeline as best they could. Ultimately their timeline wasn't correct. Short of Adnan explaining when and where he killed Hae Lee no one will ever know.

It doesn't change the fact that he shows up with Hae Lee's corpse in the back of her car and Jay helps dump the body. I believe this because Jay knew the location of the murder victim's abandoned vehicle. This is an extremely inconvenient fact that has not been discredited or explained. Quite frankly it will never be discredited short of proving a full police conspiracy involving multiple officers and coerced testimony.

There is no plausible way Jay could know where that vehicle was unless he was involved. Christina Guitierrez went hard after Jay's discrepancies (just like Undisclosed) but it didn't matter at the end of the day. Adnan was found guilty all the same.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.