May as well do this all in one day! Be back in 4 episodes
**Jessica Jones episodes 10-13 discussion**
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Last: 7 yr ago by KidDoc
Episode 11 was awesome.
I can't remember if it was in the final episodes (I burned through the show on Friday) but the revelation of IGH (?) having been responsible for paying for Jessica's hospital bills.
Liked the Claire Temple cameo in the series. Made the two shows feel much more connected.
I also like how they are setting up Trish to be sort of a hero in her own right.
I can't remember if it was in the final episodes (I burned through the show on Friday) but the revelation of IGH (?) having been responsible for paying for Jessica's hospital bills.
Liked the Claire Temple cameo in the series. Made the two shows feel much more connected.
I also like how they are setting up Trish to be sort of a hero in her own right.
Gonna fall short by 3 episodes. No use killing myself on a work night
Very strong series. I liked Daredevil more, but that's a high bar. Glad they didn't cheese some way out of Jess having to go all the way.
Looking forward to more of Cage as well. Great casting.
I bet we see Pam as a client of Nelson & Murdoch, not as any main plot, but as a carry over.
Looking forward to more of Cage as well. Great casting.
I bet we see Pam as a client of Nelson & Murdoch, not as any main plot, but as a carry over.
Pretty good stuff. Didn't care for how brief some of it felt down the stretch. Luke disappears, the relative ease of the Kilgrave finale... but I guess that's par for the course.
Could have used a few more answers, or teases for the future, but oh well. Solid stuff
Could have used a few more answers, or teases for the future, but oh well. Solid stuff
I liked it.
Fitting way to for Kilgrave to go. His biggest flaw was he always relied on his power, and underestimated JJ.
Patsy is smoking hot and glad to see her getting air time.
They did a good of setting up this world to really expand next season.
Fitting way to for Kilgrave to go. His biggest flaw was he always relied on his power, and underestimated JJ.
Patsy is smoking hot and glad to see her getting air time.
They did a good of setting up this world to really expand next season.
Kilgrave was hilarious. Great character. I loved the ruse that he had going with Luke Cage secretly taking orders from him.
I thought the final scene was a little disappointing, but I'm not sure if it could be improved.
Overall, not a great show. Plenty of eye rolling decisions made by the characters, and I highly doubt that they will find a better villain than Kilgrave. But I'll keep watching.
I thought the final scene was a little disappointing, but I'm not sure if it could be improved.
Overall, not a great show. Plenty of eye rolling decisions made by the characters, and I highly doubt that they will find a better villain than Kilgrave. But I'll keep watching.
Without knowing the comics, is kilgrave regenerative?
His name kinda implies he is difficult to kill.
His name kinda implies he is difficult to kill.
quote:Nah, he just picked that name because Murdercorpse was already taken.
Without knowing the comics, is kilgrave regenerative?
His name kinda implies he is difficult to kill.
quote:What eye rolling decisions? Everything you posted about on the 7-9 thread had a solid explanation later.
Kilgrave was hilarious. Great character. I loved the ruse that he had going with Luke Cage secretly taking orders from him.
I thought the final scene was a little disappointing, but I'm not sure if it could be improved.
Overall, not a great show. Plenty of eye rolling decisions made by the characters, and I highly doubt that they will find a better villain than Kilgrave. But I'll keep watching.
Things I didn't have a problem with but you very easily could: survivors attacking Jessica to release Kilgrave, Hogarth letting Kilgrave loose, Simpson going BSC almost instantly, Cage going after Kilgrave solo (great plan, walk right up to him), etc etc.
I really liked the show, but obviously Kilgrave couldn't be finished until Episode 13 so they had to come up with some flimsy reasons to have him escape. It happens 3 times, that I recall (stun rod guards, Hogarth hijacking, Robin and gang ambush Jessica for whatever reason) and it's a kind of frustrating mechanic to stretch the show from 4, 7 or 10 episodes into the full 13.
I really liked the show, but obviously Kilgrave couldn't be finished until Episode 13 so they had to come up with some flimsy reasons to have him escape. It happens 3 times, that I recall (stun rod guards, Hogarth hijacking, Robin and gang ambush Jessica for whatever reason) and it's a kind of frustrating mechanic to stretch the show from 4, 7 or 10 episodes into the full 13.
In almost all of the cases the people involved had heard of killgrave but did not realize the extent of his powers.
I thought the survivors attacking jessica was a bit silly. The rest played well with the story.
I thought the survivors attacking jessica was a bit silly. The rest played well with the story.
quote:
Without knowing the comics, is kilgrave regenerative?
His name kinda implies he is difficult to kill.
Actually in the comics he does have a healing factor, but I don't know if they are going to go that direction in the show.
quote:Only because you asked... It's still an entertaining show, and I don't expect perfection. But this show exceeded my tolerance for "Why the hell would you do that??" situations. Just some of the examples:quote:What eye rolling decisions? Everything you posted about on the 7-9 thread had a solid explanation later.
Kilgrave was hilarious. Great character. I loved the ruse that he had going with Luke Cage secretly taking orders from him.
I thought the final scene was a little disappointing, but I'm not sure if it could be improved.
Overall, not a great show. Plenty of eye rolling decisions made by the characters, and I highly doubt that they will find a better villain than Kilgrave. But I'll keep watching.
I'm sure that some of the logic escaped me during the scene where Kilgrave escaped the hermetically sealed chamber, but:
- Explain why the lawyer cut the electrical line.
- After Trish shot the glass out, why didn't Kilgrave tell everyone in the warehouse to kill themselves if Jessica attacked him?
- Why would Trish risk shooting out the glass after witnessing firsthand how Kilgrave was making his mom kill herself? Combined with what she already knew and what Jessica had already told her, this should have been enough to convince her that his powers were real. And, did she really have such great confidence in her shooting accuracy? If so, why? Stupid decision.
- Why didn't Kilgrave grab the videocamera on his way out? He knew they were trying to record proof of his power and that he gave it to them by having Mom kill herself. (Maybe he told someone else to grab it, and I just didn't hear this command.)
- I'm not sure, but I don't think Jessica knew (at least not for certain) that she was immune to Kilgrave until she grabbed his arm and was able to disobey his command to let him go. So, why would she risk pursuing him?
Instead of approaching Jessica at the end, why didn't he just order her to kill someone to prove that he had control of her? He was obviously clever enough to come up with this idea. For that matter, why not just order everyone at the dock to kill themselves if Jessica took him down? He'd already come up with this idea before, and it was enough to keep Jessica from attacking him.
Lastly, I understand that Jessica wanted to get evidence to free Hope, but c'mon... Especially after her experience at the police station, it should have become crystal clear to her that the only realistic way to take down someone with Kilgrave's power is to kill him and to do so from a distance. I'm sure that Trish's ex-special forces boyfriend could get his hands on a sniper rifle. Problem solved.
Again, I can handle some holes in a story, but this one just had too many for me to not make a general comment. And then, you asked for specifics...
The answer to most of your questions are that while Jessica didn't know Kilgrave couldn't do anything, Kilgrave knew that he had no control over her, and that had him terrified.
He can tell them to do whatever they wants, but the only thing he has on his side is that Jessica doesn't know he can kill her whenever she wants (as happens at the end). His only hope is to run.
And the lawyer was hoping to use Kilgrave to convince her ex to sign the papers....She didn't realize the power he would have over her until it was too late. Remember, she had never seen him in action until he had is mother kill herself and by that point, it was to late.
He can tell them to do whatever they wants, but the only thing he has on his side is that Jessica doesn't know he can kill her whenever she wants (as happens at the end). His only hope is to run.
And the lawyer was hoping to use Kilgrave to convince her ex to sign the papers....She didn't realize the power he would have over her until it was too late. Remember, she had never seen him in action until he had is mother kill herself and by that point, it was to late.
Being terrified might explain why Kilgrave didn't think to grab the videocamera. It might even explain why he didn't just simply order everyone to kill themselves if Jessica attacked him, although frankly, people who are terrified are more likely to issue this type of blanket command rather than specific commands like the ones he actually ordered.
Aside from this, your explanation doesn't address any of my other questions, including why the lawyer cut the electrical line. Why would she bother to do this? She wasn't under Kilgrave's influence until he caught up with her outside the warehouse.
Aside from this, your explanation doesn't address any of my other questions, including why the lawyer cut the electrical line. Why would she bother to do this? She wasn't under Kilgrave's influence until he caught up with her outside the warehouse.
The lawyer thing can be explained (she needed those papers signed), but I think a better explanation is that Kilgrave had to somehow escape again to prolong the show.
quote:
Aside from this, your explanation doesn't address any of my other questions, including why the lawyer cut the electrical line. Why would she bother to do this? She wasn't under Kilgrave's influence until he caught up with her outside the warehouse.
The lawyer needed a way to stop her ex from taking everything (last negotiation was at 90% of the assets
She had never seen Kilgrave in action, and like most people though Jessica was exaggerating what he could do. I get the feeling she honestly thought she could use Kilgrave to get her ex to sign the papers without any repercussions.
That's why she cut the wire. All that was before she watched him tell his mother to stab herself, but by that point it was too late and she couldn't undo it.
quote:This^^
I think a better explanation is that Kilgrave had to somehow escape again to prolong the show.
The only feasible explanation is that she cut it as a precautionary measure to prevent one of the others from arriving, seeing her talking with Kilgrave, and shocking them both. However, I think it's more likely that she would have played it safe and NOT cut it just in case the stories she had heard from more than one source were actually true.
The whole psycho boyfriend thing confused me a little bit. I get that he was under the control of the red pills, but why shoot the homicide detective? He was clearly with it enough to not hurt Patsy, so it's not like he was completely out of his mind. Did killing the detective actually do anything of substance?
What kind of command was Luke under to pull the semi-long con on Jessica? And why? So he could see Luke try to kill her? Luke could've done that as soon as he saw her following the explosion. How was being at the epicenter of an explosion fine for him, but a shotgun shot to the chin almost killed him?
Killgrave was incredibly powerful but also incredibly weak at the same time. The final scene was odd to me. The cops were ordered to kill her, but when she starts to run away, they seemed like "oh well, sucks to suck." If his goal is to escape, why make out with Patsy? It just seemed like after all the chasing this season was, he said screw it, make him a sitting duck that doesn't try to get away.
I enjoyed this season and will watch future ones likely, but there were some odd things.
Edit to add: how the crap is the dad still alive after having both arms completely chopped off, presumably quite a while before? I'm no doctor, but u would think one would bleed out from that fairly quickly.
What kind of command was Luke under to pull the semi-long con on Jessica? And why? So he could see Luke try to kill her? Luke could've done that as soon as he saw her following the explosion. How was being at the epicenter of an explosion fine for him, but a shotgun shot to the chin almost killed him?
Killgrave was incredibly powerful but also incredibly weak at the same time. The final scene was odd to me. The cops were ordered to kill her, but when she starts to run away, they seemed like "oh well, sucks to suck." If his goal is to escape, why make out with Patsy? It just seemed like after all the chasing this season was, he said screw it, make him a sitting duck that doesn't try to get away.
I enjoyed this season and will watch future ones likely, but there were some odd things.
Edit to add: how the crap is the dad still alive after having both arms completely chopped off, presumably quite a while before? I'm no doctor, but u would think one would bleed out from that fairly quickly.
in regards to the edit..
you would be surprised how long you can live with the arms cut off... cut the major arteries such as the femoral and things go south fast...
...
back to the show...
you would be surprised how long you can live with the arms cut off... cut the major arteries such as the femoral and things go south fast...
...
back to the show...
quote:
What kind of command was Luke under to pull the semi-long con on Jessica? And why? So he could see Luke try to kill her? Luke could've done that as soon as he saw her following the explosion. How was being at the epicenter of an explosion fine for him, but a shotgun shot to the chin almost killed him?
The whole thing was a trap to lure her there to give it another go at controlling her with his new power. He never wanted to kill her but he did want Luke available to protect him.
The explosion was a gas explosion and while it would have extreme heat I don't think that it is the same amount of localized force as a shotgun blast to the head. Also, he still passed out after the explosion if I remember correctly.
quote:
Killgrave was incredibly powerful but also incredibly weak at the same time. The final scene was odd to me. The cops were ordered to kill her, but when she starts to run away, they seemed like "oh well, sucks to suck." If his goal is to escape, why make out with Patsy? It just seemed like after all the chasing this season was, he said screw it, make him a sitting duck that doesn't try to get away.
The only explanation for the cops that I can come up with is that they were caught off guard that she could leap the way she did. Not a great one, but not enough of a flaw to really bother me I guess.
I'm not sure if you got the point of the entire show... He was obsessed with Jessica. He was doing that to see if he could get any kind of reaction out of her, to see if his control was really working. He never wanted Patsy, he was acting as if he would take Patsy away and rape her to see if Jessica would stop him or if she was under his control. All he wanted was for Jessica to be back under his control and to be with her, even at the very end he wanted Jessica to tell him she loved him. He was so blind with his obsession he was willing to believe he had control over her again, and he died because of it.
He didn't know she was bluffing and thus comes close for the neck snap.
That makes more sense than anything I could come up with and makes me feel dumb for not realizing it earlier. If he can't have her on her own accords, then he'll have her by his command. I had interpreted it that he was trying to get away meaning everything else was stall tactics to keep her away from him, but the interpretation you presented makes much more sense.
quote:The way they suddenly introduced this storyline was odd, but it's the kind of weak point that I can overlook. They needed to set it up for future seasons. I assume it's the kind of story that will go on for multiple seasons.
The whole psycho boyfriend thing confused me a little bit. I get that he was under the control of the red pills, but why shoot the homicide detective? He was clearly with it enough to not hurt Patsy, so it's not like he was completely out of his mind. Did killing the detective actually do anything of substance?
I think he shot the detective because he was fanatically determined (thanks to the pills) to kill Kilgrave, and he thought everyone should die to ensure that the effort to just capture Kilgrave didn't keep him from accomplishing his mission. Patsy was the only one he wouldn't kill because he was equally obsessed with her.
quote:Didn't she close a gate and insert/bend a metal bar through the latch to prevent them from following her? Maybe there was another way for them to get to the dock, but I'm willing to assume that they couldn't get there by the time that Jessica killed Kilgrave.
Kilgrave was incredibly powerful but also incredibly weak at the same time. The final scene was odd to me. The cops were ordered to kill her, but when she starts to run away, they seemed like "oh well, sucks to suck."
Re: Kilgrave at the end, he initially doesn't buy that Jessica is under his power. He repeatedly denies that it's genuine. But once Jessica lets him begin to get away with Patsy, he starts to believe that maybe she really is under his sway. That's when he approaches her, tells her he's sure she'll fall for him eventually, tells her to smile and say she loves him, and then she grabs him by the face.
I feel like the lead up was good, just wish maybe the neck-snap had been a little more dramatic. Maybe he begins to speak and she breaks him or something.
I feel like the lead up was good, just wish maybe the neck-snap had been a little more dramatic. Maybe he begins to speak and she breaks him or something.
quote:quote:
What kind of command was Luke under to pull the semi-long con on Jessica? And why? So he could see Luke try to kill her? Luke could've done that as soon as he saw her following the explosion. How was being at the epicenter of an explosion fine for him, but a shotgun shot to the chin almost killed him?
The whole thing was a trap to lure her there to give it another go at controlling her with his new power. He never wanted to kill her but he did want Luke available to protect him.
The explosion was a gas explosion and while it would have extreme heat I don't think that it is the same amount of localized force as a shotgun blast to the head. Also, he still passed out after the explosion if I remember correctly.
Right...
Even in the very last scene...He didn't want to leave with Trish...That was all a test to see if Jessica was under his control. He dropped Trish the second he thought he had truly won.
Wow. Really enjoyed this show even more than I thought I would. I agree with some of the criticisms on this thread about Kilgrave using/not using his powers in certain ways, but all in all he was a phenomenal villain. I'm interested to see if the show can maintain its quality without him. Ritter is really good, and the mashup a few years from now should be good with Daredevil, JJ, and Luke Cage in, "Defenders"
Just finished the season last night and my overall grade of the show is a C- (below average).
What I liked:
- David Tennant as Kilgrave: I thought he did a tremendous job. Great acting on his part and the exploration of his powers was intriguing.
- Trinity is back! lol
That's about it.
What I didn't like:
1) The vagueness of Jessica's powers:
Ok, so can she fly? or not? I was content with the 'super jumping ability' but it's like the show didn't want to commit to her flying. For instance, after she drugs Kilgrave (the 2nd time) while he's eating the chinese takeout, she is able to escape Simpson and his pals by flying away. But the rest of the show she spends traveling by taxi and this ability isn't shown or referenced again.
Also, is Jessica the worst fighter with super human strength ever? She can lift cars but struggles to fight against almost everyone.
Did they even fully explain why she could ignore Kilgrave's commands? Even after his enhanced powers, why was Jessica immune? At some point, she was under his control until he made her kill Luke's wife, right? Or was she truly never his to command?
2) Simpon's sudden transformation into a bad guy
Seriously, WHAT in the hell was that about? It happened so suddenly and without any explanation, the whiplash almost broke my neck.
3) The "Kilgrave Survivor Group" rally against Jessica
I almost went blind from the eye rolling stupidity of that scene
4) The ENTIRE Reuben/Twin Sister subplot
What a waste of time. It was terribly construed, awkward to watch, and half if it didn't make any sense.
5) Why did Hope kill herself exactly?
I understand her reasoning, "so you can stop him" or something. But all it did was give Kilgrave a distraction to escape and anchor Jessica to Hope's gaping neck wound. The whole thing lacked any semblance of reasoning.
6) The fight choreography
I realize Daredevil set the bar with the fight choreography it displayed, but Jessica Jones was so far beneath the bar it was glaring. The "epic battle" between Luke and Jessica should have been AMAZING. Instead, it was boring, predictable, and no different than the other half dozen vanilla fist fights we've already seen. (Half of it consisted of Luke just repeatedly punching a car door)
7) Krysten Ritter
This one is the biggest for me. I just didn't like Krysten Ritter as Jessica Jones. I don't think she's a good actress and her physical presence felt too small to portray such a strong character. I'm sure others will disagree, but it seemed like the only reason she was casted is because she has the naturally brooding look that the director was going for.
I had about a dozen other plot holes/inconsistencies that irked me too, but the above 7 reasons are the fundamental flaws that prohibited MYSELF from enjoying the show as much as I could have.
What I liked:
- David Tennant as Kilgrave: I thought he did a tremendous job. Great acting on his part and the exploration of his powers was intriguing.
- Trinity is back! lol
That's about it.
What I didn't like:
1) The vagueness of Jessica's powers:
Ok, so can she fly? or not? I was content with the 'super jumping ability' but it's like the show didn't want to commit to her flying. For instance, after she drugs Kilgrave (the 2nd time) while he's eating the chinese takeout, she is able to escape Simpson and his pals by flying away. But the rest of the show she spends traveling by taxi and this ability isn't shown or referenced again.
Also, is Jessica the worst fighter with super human strength ever? She can lift cars but struggles to fight against almost everyone.
Did they even fully explain why she could ignore Kilgrave's commands? Even after his enhanced powers, why was Jessica immune? At some point, she was under his control until he made her kill Luke's wife, right? Or was she truly never his to command?
2) Simpon's sudden transformation into a bad guy
Seriously, WHAT in the hell was that about? It happened so suddenly and without any explanation, the whiplash almost broke my neck.
3) The "Kilgrave Survivor Group" rally against Jessica
I almost went blind from the eye rolling stupidity of that scene
4) The ENTIRE Reuben/Twin Sister subplot
What a waste of time. It was terribly construed, awkward to watch, and half if it didn't make any sense.
5) Why did Hope kill herself exactly?
I understand her reasoning, "so you can stop him" or something. But all it did was give Kilgrave a distraction to escape and anchor Jessica to Hope's gaping neck wound. The whole thing lacked any semblance of reasoning.
6) The fight choreography
I realize Daredevil set the bar with the fight choreography it displayed, but Jessica Jones was so far beneath the bar it was glaring. The "epic battle" between Luke and Jessica should have been AMAZING. Instead, it was boring, predictable, and no different than the other half dozen vanilla fist fights we've already seen. (Half of it consisted of Luke just repeatedly punching a car door)
7) Krysten Ritter
This one is the biggest for me. I just didn't like Krysten Ritter as Jessica Jones. I don't think she's a good actress and her physical presence felt too small to portray such a strong character. I'm sure others will disagree, but it seemed like the only reason she was casted is because she has the naturally brooding look that the director was going for.
I had about a dozen other plot holes/inconsistencies that irked me too, but the above 7 reasons are the fundamental flaws that prohibited MYSELF from enjoying the show as much as I could have.
So Luke Cage's arch enemy is a woman with a diamond vagina, right?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I just wanted to ask a question in regards to point 6, but were Jessica and Luke supposed to be trained fighters? Jessica came across as more of a brawler with less training using her powers to her advantage.
quote:Haha no clue! Because the show never fully expounded on her abilities whatsoever. We know she had them since her teenage years and we know she tried to be a real super hero at some point. That's about it.
I just wanted to ask a question in regards to point 6, but were Jessica and Luke supposed to be trained fighters? Jessica came across as more of a brawler with less training using her powers to her advantage.
Either way, her brawl with Luke was just 1 of many disappointing fight scenes. I wasn't expecting ninja flips or anything, but the entire fight itself felt weak for a clash between 2 super humans.
My biggest gripe about the series was that JJ owned ONE PAIR OF PANTS! C'mon, does she not own anything but that one torn pair of jeans?
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