*** INTERSTELLAR Spoiler Discussion ***

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TCTTS
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10:02a, 11/4/14
AG
It sounds like a decent amount of us will be seeing Interstellar tonight in IMAX before the movie goes wide in a couple of days, and this being a Christopher Nolan film, I figured it'd be best to have a separate thread anyway dedicated to the sure-to-be-mind-bending spoiler discussion/analyzation of the plot. That way, those who won't be seeing it for a few days - or who obviously don't want to be spoiled at all - can still read spoiler-free reactions in the other thread (located here).

I've also uploaded the original Jonathan Nolan draft of the script for comparison. It might help spur a bit more discussion, and I can't wait to finally finish it myself to see how it differs from the final project...

Interstellar (2008 Jonathan Nolan Draft)

I will say that I continue to read very lukewarm reactions from people I like/trust, with only the occasional "best movie experience of the year" type tweet here and there also from trusted bloggers/critic types. So I don't know what to think. All I know is my expectations aren't near as high as they once were, but hopefully that's a good thing. I think I'm at a point where I'll be able to be completely objective, and soak it in for exactly what it is, good, bad, or amazing.

Either way, after almost two years of waiting, today is the day, and movies like this don't come around very often. That something this ambitious is finally here is worth celebrating regardless. See you guys on the other side of the wormhole...
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hunter2012
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11:17a, 11/4/14
AG
I can't believe the day is finally here, I guess we'll see where our speculation on the script is accurate or isn't. I have a rule that I will give any Christopher Nolan movie a shot, but to judge each one within the genres that they are in. So I will be comparing this to the other grandiose sci-fis. Despite the mixed reviews I can't wait for tonight so I can judge it myself.
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TCTTS
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2:31a, 11/5/14
AG
Wow. This one's going to take a lot longer to process than I previously thought. I LOVED the majority of it, but the bookshelf/fifth dimension thing in the final act didn't quite work for me. Parts of that sequence looked super-cool, but other aspects came across as really, really clunky. I got the gist of the why/how (I think), but I just don't feel like it all quite came together in the end like Nolan was hoping. It was like he was trying to one-up the end of Inception, but went a bit overboard in the process.

I need to see it again before analyzing it anymore. But honestly, I don't have that immediate desire to do so and figure it all out like I did with Inception. I almost don't care enough right now to try and truly understand it. Again, there was SO MUCH great stuff in this movie, but a lot of missteps as well. It definitely doesn't feel to me like the home run so many are claiming it is in the other thread. Maybe a really exciting in-the-park-home-run, but one where the guy is ultimately thrown out at home. Definitely going to need to sit with this one for a while.
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TCTTS
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3:17a, 11/5/14
AG
I will say that I think my favorite part of the entire movie was the sequence where Cooper watches the messages for the first time after the 23-year time-lapse (or however long). That was super emotional, and so beautifully/gracefully done with the transition to Casey Affleck. And then when Jessica Chastain comes on the video screen - and we see for the first time - man, that was such a subtly cool intro with so much heartache on both sides. Loved the cut when we see her turn the feed off and then were there in real time with her back on Earth. Very nicely done.

I just wish other aspects of the time jumps were handled with that kind of care, especially when Cooper and Brand see Romilly for the first time after returning from the ocean planet. I know he slept a couple times over that time span, but I didn't think Romilly was weird/disheveled enough after being alone on the ship for 20+ years. Even before that, when they thought they were only going to be gone two years (in Romilly time), there wasn't any kind of a beat there for a proper goodbye, which I thought would have been a nice little moment. Instead, it was Just kind of a blunt edit to Cooper & co descending toward the ocean planet.

Really, that was one of my main problems with the film as a whole. There would be these beautiful, pitch-perfect sequences, followed by blunt, somewhat clunky moments that felt like no brainers to let breath just a bit more. Granted, this movie definitely didn't need any more time added on, but surely something could have been done about the obvious ebb and flow from awesome moment and clunky moment.
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TCTTS
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4:04a, 11/5/14
AG
Ok, I swore I wouldn't do this yet, but I'm laying in bed going over certain plot points, and one of the main questions I had that not one of the seven people I was with could answer is this...

What EXACTLY was Murph's goal back on Earth? Her and Michael Caine just kept saying they were trying to "solve gravity," but what did solving gravity then allow them to accomplish? I know they were building the space colony in the underground base (right?), but what was the connection between solving gravity and the colony base? Did it allow them to get the base in space somehow? Maybe it was just the super-muddled audio in our theater, but I somehow missed this part completely.

I have probably a dozen or so more questions, but this is the one that's bugging me the most at the moment.
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wangus12
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7:02a, 11/5/14
AG
I really enjoyed it. A really good movie, not great. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit letdown after waiting for this movie for so long.

I really thought the Matt Damon part was incredibly predictable and it reminded me of Sunshine where the other captain attempts to hijack the ship. Their reasoning is different, but the plot at that point was the same. Also, it was easy predicting that the "ghost" at the beginning was Cooper communicating due to some hole in space-time.

The visuals were stunning and like I said, I really liked it, but it wasn't the greatest thing I've ever seen. I liked the 2 robots and their interactions with the cast.
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Ag Since 83
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7:10a, 11/5/14
AG
quote:
I know they were building the space colony in the underground base (right?), but what was the connection between solving gravity and the colony base? Did it allow them to get the base in space somehow?


I believe that was the issue. Overall, I agree with most of what you said. There was a lot of really good parts, but some definite weak spots as well. I agree the part watching the videos spanning 23 years was one of the strongest parts of the movie. On the flip side, I thought the Matt Damon part was kind of weak, mainly because it lasted a while. It was like they said "well, we have a movie star playing this guy, we might as well keep him around for a while," which in a long movie can become pretty taxing.

Overall, I liked the movie, and admired that they were willing to try some of the stuff. I never thought I'd see a major blockbuster make such an elaborate homage to 2001, but more power to them. The ending was incredibly obvious, but generally it worked. I agree part of the 5th dimension stuff was clunky and overly long, though.
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scubasteve304
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In reply to TCTTS • 8:51a, 11/5/14
AG
quote:
What EXACTLY was Murph's goal back on Earth? Her and Michael Caine just kept saying they were trying to "solve gravity," but what did solving gravity then allow them to accomplish? I know they were building the space colony in the underground base (right?), but what was the connection between solving gravity and the colony base? Did it allow them to get the base in space somehow? Maybe it was just the super-muddled audio in our theater, but I somehow missed this part completely.
TCTTS, Yes I believe they were trying to solve the gravity equation that Plan A hinges on that earlier in the film Caine promises he will solve while MM is on the mission (and the only reason MM agrees to go). Basically, that they can build the station and fill it with a ton of resources and earth people but there's just no propulsion system/fuel that will get something that massive into space. They have to somehow beat gravity for Plan A to work, to get that many humans off the earth and through the wormhole, and that's what they're working on while the other crew is looking for a habitable planet.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:07a, 11/5/14
AG
quote:
Ok, I swore I wouldn't do this yet, but I'm laying in bed going over certain plot points, and one of the main questions I had that not one of the seven people I was with could answer is this...

What EXACTLY was Murph's goal back on Earth? Her and Michael Caine just kept saying they were trying to "solve gravity," but what did solving gravity then allow them to accomplish? I know they were building the space colony in the underground base (right?), but what was the connection between solving gravity and the colony base? Did it allow them to get the base in space somehow? Maybe it was just the super-muddled audio in our theater, but I somehow missed this part completely.

I have probably a dozen or so more questions, but this is the one that's bugging me the most at the moment.
The way I understood it was that the equation was about "solving gravity" or figuring out how gravity works on a quantum level, which would allow them to manipulate gravity and get the station along with others like it into space.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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10:18a, 11/5/14
AG
Sounds like they were trying to defy gravity to me.


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TCTTS
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10:33a, 11/5/14
AG
Thanks, guys. That makes sense, and is basically what I assumed, I just wasn't completely sure.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Ag Since 83 • 10:37a, 11/5/14
AG
quote:
quote:
I know they were building the space colony in the underground base (right?), but what was the connection between solving gravity and the colony base? Did it allow them to get the base in space somehow?


I believe that was the issue. Overall, I agree with most of what you said. There was a lot of really good parts, but some definite weak spots as well. I agree the part watching the videos spanning 23 years was one of the strongest parts of the movie. On the flip side, I thought the Matt Damon part was kind of weak, mainly because it lasted a while. It was like they said "well, we have a movie star playing this guy, we might as well keep him around for a while," which in a long movie can become pretty taxing.

Overall, I liked the movie, and admired that they were willing to try some of the stuff. I never thought I'd see a major blockbuster make such an elaborate homage to 2001, but more power to them. The ending was incredibly obvious, but generally it worked. I agree part of the 5th dimension stuff was clunky and overly long, though.
The videos over 23 years thing was definitely one of the most emotionally powerful parts of the movie. I think it spoke a lot to the potential sacrifice of deep space travel due to the physics involved.

I thought that Matt Damon's part was one of the more interesting parts though. It provided a really interesting contrast between his character and situation and other characters and themes in the movie. For instance, he was portrayed by Brand as kind of an altruistic, intellectual loner totally willing to give up his life because he had no connections back on earth and was willing to put humanity before himself, but after he landed he felt a yearning for humanity and companionship so strong that he faked his data and status in order to make his worthless planet a priority in hopes of being rescued someday. He had to know that humanity would have precious few resources and that such an act could doom the entire race, but the man who had been so willing to sacrifice himself to save humanity had been so transformed by loneliness that he was now willing to sacrifice humanity (his own as well as the species) to save himself. I thought that was a pretty powerful commentary on the survival theme of the movie. I think it contrasted well with the overall theme of the survival of the species against the survival of individuals.

The bookcase part at the end was really interesting. I thought Nolan did a really nice job of translating time into a 3 dimensional space by eliminating 3 dimensional space. Instead of moving through both space and time at once, Cooper occupied the singularity in his daughter's room and moved through time in the 3 dimensions of the singularity. So, Cooper never moves in our 3 spatial dimensions, but he moves through our 4th time dimension as he moves through his 3 time dimensions and his 4th spatial dimension. I know that may not make a lot of sense, so a more simple explanation might be that Murph's time was Cooper's space, and Cooper's space was Murph's time. Murph can move through space and not time, but Cooper can move through time and not space. It was definitely a very interesting concept and interpretation. I feel like it would be very hard to visually pull off, and Nolan did it really well in my opinion.
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hunter2012
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11:37a, 11/5/14
AG
Found this gem:

provides some more analysis on "the room", and the ending

Personally I interpriet it as he is able to affect the room because he was seeing his own frame of reference in time. Notice how every time he affects the room it is either when or soon after he leaves the room in the past. So he isn't time traveling but he can influence the time/space in his own past.

You could easily say that cooper or humanity could have built the room in the future with the same means that cooper was able to influence the bookshelf... Either that or the black hole affects timespace to the point that he is able to affect his own frame of reference in time. Though theory 1 explains the end much better, they made the room for him to influence the past and then dumps him out of the wormhole.

Or the article is right and the end is a delusion as he dies.
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Ag Since 83
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12:07p, 11/5/14
AG
My friend who went to see the movie with me has pointed out they should have realized the data and beacon from the first planet would only be an hour old before they went there, and they should have factored that into their decision making before investing so many years in that planet.
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wangus12
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In reply to hunter2012 • 12:15p, 11/5/14
AG
quote:
Found this gem:

provides some more analysis on "the room", and the ending

Personally I interpriet it as he is able to affect the room because he was seeing his own frame of reference in time. Notice how every time he affects the room it is either when or soon after he leaves the room in the past. So he isn't time traveling but he can influence the time/space in his own past.

You could easily say that cooper or humanity could have built the room in the future with the same means that cooper was able to influence the bookshelf... Either that or the black hole affects timespace to the point that he is able to affect his own frame of reference in time. Though theory 1 explains the end much better, they made the room for him to influence the past and then dumps him out of the wormhole.

Or the article is right and the end is a delusion as he dies.
Dammit hunter, I'm not playing the Inception game again with the whole did he make it or not!
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Ag Since 83 • 12:32p, 11/5/14
AG
quote:
My friend who went to see the movie with me has pointed out they should have realized the data and beacon from the first planet would only be an hour old before they went there, and they should have factored that into their decision making before investing so many years in that planet.
They probably should have, but wrapping your head around all of the time differences is probably pretty hard. It's easy to think of it going one way in the direction you're headed; it's a little harder to consider it going back and forth.
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Saxsoon
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12:34a, 11/6/14
AG
So I loved the film. It hit all the right notes for me. I am only disappointed in the sound overshadowed some key dialogue places and the fact that they are trying to live in the system of a ****ing blackhole.

The gravity equation was going to allow them to create a wormhole underground that they could send people through with little issue of having to get them into space and then 2 years to get to Saturn.

On the acting, MM did a phenomenonal job and at the end of the day, this is a film about a man and his daughter. The scenes with both young Murph and the reactions between him and Jessica Chastain across time and space were amazing . I agree that the 23 years of messages was so poignant and beautifully done. Anne Hathaway was good, but had some weird motives at times, especially after how much **** she gave him over his kids. Loved the robots and it took me until the end to realize that TARS was voiced by Damon. I thought Damon really got the mentally unstable part down really well and provided some nice conflict.

The two worlds they visited were very fantastical but that was the point. Frozen atmospheres, mountain sized waves. The blackhole was amazingly realized and did not disappoint.

I realized that the moment the STAY message happened, Cooper would be sending messages to himself in the past, and in fact humanity created the distortions in the first place. And here is where I believe the crux of the film truly lies, in that it wasn't a benevolent alien entity that saved us.


So humanity at some point in the far off future transcends time and space and can now operate in 4/5/nth dimensions. However they look into their past and see a humanity that has given up the will to live (we see Matt Damon touch on this theme of a survival instinct A LOT). Humanity has given up on exploration, and is just trying to survive, and in the process is slowly killing itself. All talks of exploration are banned and humanity has become a caretaker for a dying world. Humanity was born on Earth, it wasn't meant to die there. It is very telling the revisionist history of the text books just how taboo NASA and space have become

So in looking into their past, they see the story of an amazing father and daughter, and the arrival of a gravity distortion that saves Humanity in the first place and brings them to where they are. To set these actions into motion, they send the distortion back. Cooper sees the messages and finds the base. He goes out there and eventually finds himself in the library. In the process, just like future humanity, he creates a closed loop by sending himself there. i know a lot of people do not like endings/time travel shenanigans but I loved it.

And that is truly the message of this film. Humanity is not going to survive because of some external force that is going to come save the day. The answer isn't here on Earth, because eventually, it will fail because of the way we use it. In the end it will be us and our sense of exploration that will save us. It is obvious this film is in response to all of the budget cuts at NASA and in space exploration. It is to reignite that sense of wonder of the universe. For me at least, it did. My jaw was hanging at an angle for most of the film because of the beauty on screen. I saw some comments how there wasn't a sense of adventure. There was a sense of adventure in its truest sense. And in that adventure comes a fear of the unknown, but also a hope for tomorrow.








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TCTTS
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1:13a, 11/6/14
AG
^ Very well said.

quote:
Loved the robots and it took me until the end to realize that TARS was voiced by Damon.

Sounded like Damon, but it wasn't. It was Bill Irwin, who played Hathaway's dad in Rachel Getting Married (an excellent movie if you've never seen it).
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Saxsoon
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1:17a, 11/6/14
AG
Oh it made sense to me if they modeled the voice of the robot after him since he was so important to the program
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Saxsoon
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1:20a, 11/6/14
AG
Guess not
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reb,
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11:21p, 11/6/14
AG
as I said on the other thread, before I saw this one, all time top 10 movie for me. so thoroughly good from top to bottom.
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Engine10
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11:34p, 11/6/14
AG
Just got out, what an emotional adventure. Agree with the sense of wonder comment above.
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double aught
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11:37p, 11/6/14
AG
I can see how some feel that it didn't quite hit on all cylinders, but I really liked this movie. Very epic feel.

But what was up with the sound mixing? It was hard to hear some of the dialogue due to the overwhelming loudness of the score. Sounds like some others had similar issues.
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Simplebay
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11:39p, 11/6/14
AG
Loved it. It was an adevnture
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double aught
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11:41p, 11/6/14
AG
Oh, and I like how the one guy was unceremoniously washed away on the wave planet. Dude, get in the ship!
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Bunk Moreland
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11:46p, 11/6/14
Great thread already. Loved it. Still in awe. Need a while to wrap my head around everything
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FAST FRED
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12:42a, 11/7/14
AG
I thought it was OK.

But I predict there will be many movie goers who will like this one a lot more than I did

There will be viewers who'll find in it enough epiphany and emotion to be life-changing or maybe even the best sci fi flick they've ever seen.

However, at age 71, I'm just too old for this film to have that effect on me.

After seeing "Gravity," I opined that its visuals were the very best I'd ever seen, but that the movie itself lacked gravitas.

This movie, "Interstellar" had gravitas aplenty, but I thought the visuals weren't as good.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816692/

IMHO, it was pretty good to very good and somewhat original, with good to great acting, decent cinematography, superb film editing and had lackluster special effects.

Matthew McConaughey may win another Oscar.

It also had nice and effective music that was sometimes a little loud in my ear and, perhaps, an overly long running time.

I don't think that it is director Christopher Nolan's best work.

But it was worth the six bucks I paid on an otherwise slow night.

If you like it more, that's cool.



I was put in recall of "The Grapes of Wrath" (because of all the dust storms) fusing up with "Contact" and "2001: A Space Odyssey."


And, according to the message I gleaned from this movie, The Beatles' assertion that "All You Need Is Love" should be elevated in status to being one of the immutable Laws of the Universe (like the Law of Gravity) and should therefore be listed in every modern book of physics.

Maybe it should be.

So that's cool too.



JMO.

Go and see what you think.



BTHO Auburn!!!!!!
Gig 'em, FAST FRED, '65.

Before the world wide web, village idiots usually stayed in their own village.
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TCTTS
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3:23a, 11/7/14
AG
Always love your takes, FF. Definitely on the same page.
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reb,
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4:07a, 11/7/14
AG
This movie most closely compares, IMHO, to another top 10 of mine which was 'Contact'...though better. Something that always didn't sit right with me with that film was the way it equivocated on the question of faith, which to this science fiction lover was distracting (though to some this might have been a crucial part of the story). 'Interstellar' didn't have any of that for me, it was distilled sci/fi greatness and to folks like this here nerd, any shortcomings it might have as a film are completely trivial compared to the epicness of this masterpiece. This is a film that would move stodgy old Mr. Asimov to tears and by thinking that I feel grateful to have been alive to see such a wonderful movie like this with my own eyes. I am completely satisfied with everything about it.
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reb,
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6:50a, 11/7/14
AG
the trip into the black hole was very reminiscent of 2001 but i think most people got that from the sheer 'weirdness' of how such a trip had to be. His ejection out of it and into orbit around Saturn was almost straight out of 3001 (Frank Poole's body getting reanimated after being adrift in space)
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wangus12
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7:03a, 11/7/14
AG
quote:
And, according to the message I gleaned from this movie, The Beatles' assertion that "All You Need Is Love" should be elevated in status to being one of the immutable Laws of the Universe (like the Law of Gravity) and should therefore be listed in every modern book of physics.
The Beatles suck
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wangus12
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7:11a, 11/7/14
AG
Went and saw it again with the roommate since he really wanted to see it. Still really enjoyed it and it held my attention all the way through a 2nd viewing which some films don't. I still love the grandeur of the idea of Interstellar travel. My research at A&M my senior year was on the effect of microgravity on the human body so the film has a cool meaning to me. My hope is it sparks a larger interest in the space movement since I plan on going back to school for a graduate degree in Human Space Flight. NASA and the industry could use some help, especially after the 2 mishaps last week.
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Bunk Moreland
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8:51a, 11/7/14
quote:
With Interstellar, it's almost like this is his chance to finally make his epic, create his crazy world, and include the smart & the heart all in one. Am I expecting some of the dialogue to be a bit cheesy? Sure, it will at times. Am I expecting a few "conveniences" in regards to the "how did they do that?" questions with space travel? Sure. But I'm also totally ok with that, and it's not going to get in the way of how I'd judge the movie.

So this is what I posted a week or 2 back before I went into viewing it. I stuck exactly to this and I absolutely loved it.

Yes, there were a few things that were left unexplained a tad, or not hashed out enough. Yes, there was an element of cheesy emotions at times. Yes, the visuals and pacing seemed somewhat clunky(good word to describe it for whoever used it first here), but it didn't matter to me. I wasn't expecting the most perfect movie ever. It simply won't happen when you have a movie this long, with this many layers, dealing with this type of subject matter.

It's always going to leave you feeling not quite at ease, and I love it for that.

I'm so glad the trailer basically provided me nothing for the 2nd and 3rd acts. I can't wait to go back and dissect basically the back 67% of the film again. I called some of the Nolan twists, but not others.

Basically, he could have "Spielberged" it with a solid fade to black when MM falls into the black hole, maybe with some super emotional song. Then come out of black with a quick scene into the future of Murph heading to the planet to find Brand as she has finally cracked the code. That would have given us the traditional hero's fall, but hope and promise for the future of mankind.

It would have left us not knowing who "they" were, but that also would have just helped close up any discussion on different things(the how, why , etc.). Everyone would have just said "it's 'they,' and Man still can't comprehend going into a 4th and 5th dimension, can't harness any life out of a black hole, but 'they' can, and we just have to accept it." And people would have loved the tied up bow to end it.

But Nolan took a chance and really went after the black hole, tied "they" to us(or MM), and that whole ending made you walk out thinking about it. For all Nolan does, I love that most about his films. It doesn't have to be perfect, but tell me you didn't look up at the stars when you walked out of the theater after seeing it(assuming the city lights didn't burn them out of view)?

I'm glad I stuck with my attitude going in. I was not disappointed in the least.
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Philip J Fry
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5:49p, 11/7/14
AG
Saw it today. I can't remember another movie where I was just in awe of what I was seeing. Inception comes pretty close.

I totally disagree with any shortcomings some of you have. It was just about perfect, minus the sound issues in the black hole.
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Danger Mouse
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6:31p, 11/7/14
AG
I saw the movie this afternoon in IMAX at the Ait & Space Museum.

I really enjoyed Intestellar for several reasons.

First, my description to my friends and my daughter was that the movie is essentially about the relationship between a dad and his daughter. It resonated with me in a major way for that reason alone.

As lifelong fan of the Sci-fi genre, I totally liked that aspect of the movie.

As an engineer, I also enjoyed the technical aspects of it.

Overall it is a top ten alltime Sci-Fi movie.

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