Hypocritical? Possibly. Not sure how I could be hypocritical. If so, please expand because Maybe I am.

Not a mature view? Not buying that. I certainly think it's possible for a soldier to be deployed and do his/her job well and still not have such a black and white view of the situation. I've read numerous personal accounts of folks that were in the war and had an excellent grasp of the complexities of the situation.

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Macarthur - I think you'd actually really enjoy the film, especially going in with the questions and viewpoint you have, as a window into the Iraq war.

The film portrays and examines war, and a soldier in it, not its justification or the geopolitical drivers for it.

It does show a character questioning the merits of the war, and being a film about Chris Kyle, gives us his answer to that character's uncertainty in the validity of his employment as a volunteer soldier. Each viewer will react differently to Kyle's explanation.

Someone coming into the film with anti-war mindset, will be reinforced by the film of that philosophy. Conversely someone coming in with a hawkish mindset, will see what they want and come out of the film reinforced in their beliefs. I guess that's the true testament to the quality of film. Now, if you go in with an undecided opinion, that's the true discussion we should have around the film. Although, it would still be interesting to see how certain aspects will enforce one view versus the other.

For example: the ruthless fundamentalist butcher who uses a drill for intimidation and "justice" could be seen by a dove as a person who is only given what they want with US intervention in the ME and that we should therefore stay away from there and not give into their propoganda machine and their hate; while a hawk would see him as someone who is ruthless and would bring his form of justice to anyone who disagrees with him and it is our duty as moral global citizens to bring him to true justice.

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Even not seeing the movie, I still think it's fair to ask why a movie based on a real guy who wrote a book on his experience would add in that he shot a child when he didn't do that. I think it's fair to wonder why that was added to the movie.

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Again, I see why you think that without seeing the movie. And again I say it would make more sense if you had seen the movie, which you haven't. I can probably assume why you THINK that scene was added, and I also assume it's very different from what I believe is the reason it was added. And since I'm the only one of the two of us that has seen the movie and read the book, I would lean more toward believing my point of view. But, that's just me.

I know I'm harping on the fact that you haven't seen the movie, but I feel it's an important distinction. However, I'm not sure seeing the movie would change the nature of your argument. If you go into this movie with pre-conceived notions and assumptions of what it will depict, this movie would probably just reinforce those. If you go see it with an open mind (which is probably impossible), I think you would have a very different view.

I can't explain why I think that scene was added without MAJOR SPOILERS, so IF you want to know why I think it was added, do so knowing I am putting you on SPOILER ALERT. (Which is stupid in a thread about a movie.)

**SPOILER ALERT**

Yes, there is a scene in the movie where Chris Kyle shoots a child who is charging at Marines with a grenade launcher that was given to him by his mother. Then shoots the mother. This is depicted as being his first kills in Iraq, on his first tour. It bothers him that this is how his first kill went down, but only slightly. He felt he had cause and made the right call.

(In real life, he did shoot a woman with a grenade launcher, but no child was involved. He claims it was the only time he killed anyone other than military age, male combatants.)

However, later in the movie, during his 4th tour, there is a scene where a young boy picks up a rocket launcher and begins to aim it at nearby troops. Kyle has the kid in his sights, but is visibly upset at the prospect of having to shoot him, literally begging him to drop it. The kid does eventually drop it and runs away and Kyle is relieved/distraught. It noticeably and deeply affected him.

(A similar story does appear in the book. And Kyle mentions being terrified of having to shoot a kid.)

Why did the movie add a scene where he DOES shoot a kid? In my opinion (and I believe the most realistic and straight forward one), Eastwood used these similar situations and Kyle's reaction to each to highlight how the war and fatherhood affected him between his first tour and his fourth. In the first tour, he shot a young boy and barely lost sleep over it. After years of war, becoming a father twice, losing friends, and seeing how the war affected the innocent Iraqi citizens, he was very noticeably and deeply upset at the prospect of having to shoot another boy, this one with a freaking rocket launcher 100' from a number of US troops. It was a way of showing that Kyle was getting to the point of being "done" and ready to go home for good. Keep in mind, a movie only has a few hours to show this gradual transition. This was his way of doing that.

You may not see it the same way, but how would you know? I'll repeat, go see the movie before making any more snap judgements or assumptions.

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Even not seeing the movie, I still think it's fair to ask why a movie based on a real guy who wrote a book on his experience would add in that he shot a child when he didn't do that. I think it's fair to wonder why that was added to the movie.

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Again, I see why you think that without seeing the movie. And again I say it would make more sense if you had seen the movie, which you haven't. I can probably assume why you THINK that scene was added, and I also assume it's very different from what I believe is the reason it was added. And since I'm the only one of the two of us that has seen the movie and read the book, I would lean more toward believing my point of view. But, that's just me.

I know I'm harping on the fact that you haven't seen the movie, but I feel it's an important distinction. However, I'm not sure seeing the movie would change the nature of your argument. If you go into this movie with pre-conceived notions and assumptions of what it will depict, this movie would probably just reinforce those. If you go see it with an open mind (which is probably impossible), I think you would have a very different view.

I can't explain why I think that scene was added without MAJOR SPOILERS, so IF you want to know why I think it was added, do so knowing I am putting you on SPOILER ALERT. (Which is stupid in a thread about a movie.)

**SPOILER ALERT**

Yes, there is a scene in the movie where Chris Kyle shoots a child who is charging at Marines with a grenade launcher that was given to him by his mother. Then shoots the mother. This is depicted as being his first kills in Iraq, on his first tour. It bothers him that this is how his first kill went down, but only slightly. He felt he had cause and made the right call.

(In real life, he did shoot a woman with a grenade launcher, but no child was involved. He claims it was the only time he killed anyone other than military age, male combatants.)

However, later in the movie, during his 4th tour, there is a scene where a young boy picks up a rocket launcher and begins to aim it at nearby troops. Kyle has the kid in his sights, but is visibly upset at the prospect of having to shoot him, literally begging him to drop it. The kid does eventually drop it and runs away and Kyle is relieved/distraught. It noticeably and deeply affected him.

(A similar story does appear in the book. And Kyle mentions being terrified of having to shoot a kid.)

Why did the movie add a scene where he DOES shoot a kid? In my opinion (and I believe the most realistic and straight forward one), Eastwood used these similar situations and Kyle's reaction to each to highlight how the war and fatherhood affected him between his first tour and his fourth. In the first tour, he shot a young boy and barely lost sleep over it. After years of war, becoming a father twice, losing friends, and seeing how the war affected the innocent Iraqi citizens, he was very noticeably and deeply upset at the prospect of having to shoot another boy, this one with a freaking rocket launcher 100' from a number of US troops. It was a way of showing that Kyle was getting to the point of being "done" and ready to go home for good. Keep in mind, a movie only has a few hours to show this gradual transition. This was his way of doing that.

You may not see it the same way, but how would you know? I'll repeat, go see the movie before making any more snap judgements or assumptions.

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I appreciate you taking the time to make the in depth response. I do want to see the movie, for the record. And I'm sure it's great.

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Hypocritical? Possibly. Not sure how I could be hypocritical. If so, please expand because Maybe I am.

Not a mature view? Not buying that. I certainly think it's possible for a soldier to be deployed and do his/her job well and still not have such a black and white view of the situation. I've read numerous personal accounts of folks that were in the war and had an excellent grasp of the complexities of the situation.

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Who are we to judge what those men use as their motivation?

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Hypocritical? Possibly. Not sure how I could be hypocritical. If so, please expand because Maybe I am.

Not a mature view? Not buying that. I certainly think it's possible for a soldier to be deployed and do his/her job well and still not have such a black and white view of the situation. I've read numerous personal accounts of folks that were in the war and had an excellent grasp of the complexities of the situation.

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Who are we to judge what those men use as their motivation?

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I understand and I can only imagine what sort of mental gymnastics it would take for me to go through even a fraction of what our guys have gone through over there.

Saw it today. Enjoyed it.

Read the rolling stone review. Have to say that the liberal pos that run that rag ought to tried for treason.

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Saw it today. Enjoyed it.

Read the rolling stone review. Have to say that the liberal pos that run that rag ought to tried for treason.

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LOL

Just got out of the theater. That is the most quiet I have ever heard a theater on leaving minus some whispering.

Very good film and I loved how it dealt with the effects it had on him and his wife and eventually the PTSD. Strong film that showed a man who believed he was doing the right thing, even if it wasn't so black/white

Also, after reading TC's comment earlier, I really didn't watch Bradley Cooper for over 2 hours. He really did sink into that role. He normally plays a stereotype of himself, but this was over and beyond for him.

I don't frequent this board, but I saw the movie tonight and had plenty of thoughts about it. I happened to check the premium board in regards to other matters and found myself here.

I honestly sat down with a clean slate to watch the film. Simply from the trailers, I knew this film would be more about PTSD than anything else. It's an issue I can relate to. My political views aside I made it a point to put some time away to see it. I was glad that I did.

There were numerous lines that caused me to shift in my seat. When the wife commented "Your hands feel different", and when he is getting his tires changed and he can't wait to get away from the dude who talks to his kid. He saved the dudes life but can't stand to look him in the eye. It made my skin crawl. They threw in some jabs here and there that really struck home. My ex-wife will tell you all about both of those reactions.

They could have done so much more to delve into the real message of the film, but glossed over it really quickly, the action scenes are what sell tickets I guess. I could have done with half of the action and twice the narrative on mental healthcare for veterans, which is still poorly lacking. I once had an Iraq vet try to stab me on a call. He was pretty pill****ed and I was able to easily disarm him. I hope he's doing well now and I wish we took better care of our returning veterans.

In full disclosure, I am not a vet, but I do work in a civilian capacity that comes pretty damn close. I've been shot at, almost stabbed, and have spent plenty of time washing blood off my hands, mostly relating to the death of children. The scenes involving children as targets were hard to watch, as a parent, and a medical provider.

This film will mean something different to anyone who sees it, which is the great thing about art. It is subjective, but is meant to inspire. The next time a head off for another 24 hour "Tour" I'll have a fresh sense of empathy and purpose. It may only last a week or two, but if that is it then the 2 hours was worth it.

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I don't frequent this board, but I saw the movie tonight and had plenty of thoughts about it. I happened to check the premium board in regards to other matters and found myself here.

I honestly sat down with a clean slate to watch the film. Simply from the trailers, I knew this film would be more about PTSD than anything else. It's an issue I can relate to. My political views aside I made it a point to put some time away to see it. I was glad that I did.

There were numerous lines that caused me to shift in my seat. When the wife commented "Your hands feel different", and when he is getting his tires changed and he can't wait to get away from the dude who talks to his kid. He saved the dudes life but can't stand to look him in the eye. It made my skin crawl. They threw in some jabs here and there that really struck home. My ex-wife will tell you all about both of those reactions.

They could have done so much more to delve into the real message of the film, but glossed over it really quickly, the action scenes are what sell tickets I guess. I could have done with half of the action and twice the narrative on mental healthcare for veterans, which is still poorly lacking. I once had an Iraq vet try to stab me on a call. He was pretty pill****ed and I was able to easily disarm him. I hope he's doing well now and I wish we took better care of our returning veterans.

In full disclosure, I am not a vet, but I do work in a civilian capacity that comes pretty damn close. I've been shot at, almost stabbed, and have spent plenty of time washing blood off my hands, mostly relating to the death of children. The scenes involving children as targets were hard to watch, as a parent, and a medical provider.

This film will mean something different to anyone who sees it, which is the great thing about art. It is subjective, but is meant to inspire. The next time a head off for another 24 hour "Tour" I'll have a fresh sense of empathy and purpose. It may only last a week or two, but if that is it then the 2 hours was worth it.

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Gomer can you tell us what exactly you do? That sounds pretty intense.

I'm a Firefighter/Paramedic and I also work in the ER at a Pediatric Trauma Center.

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There were numerous lines that caused me to shift in my seat. When the wife commented "Your hands feel different", and when he is getting his tires changed and he can't wait to get away from the dude who talks to his kid. He saved the dudes life but can't stand to look him in the eye. It made my skin crawl. They threw in some jabs here and there that really struck home. My ex-wife will tell you all about both of those reactions.

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I get being uneasy talking to the guy at the tire store, especially after seeing his leg. But, I don't get the "your hands feel different" line. Explain.

I was drinking last night and may have been a little dramatic when I wrote that, but I once had a woman tell me almost the exact same thing and that line really caught my attention. Actually kind of coincidental.

I've noticed when I shake the hands of my vet friend, if he's going through a depression his hand is cold and rigid, it's like shaking hands with a skeleton.

When he is happy and engaging, his handshake feels normal. And yes, he does suffer with ptsd, he goes 3-4 days of sleeplessness, he gets withdrawn. He has to drink heavily to sleep (blackout) because the sleeping pills put him into nightmares and he can't tell what's real life and a dream.