Goodfield Nohit's recent loss got me to thinking: is suicide something that should be mourned or looked down upon because of society's views. No disrespect to GN. I've never known a person that committed suicide. Your thoughts?

Part of me would think it is a very selfish behavior, particularly to the living. Yes, the living would mourn, but I'd guess things would have to really be bad to discount the feelings of those that cared for you.

Which caused you the most grief, the death of Phil Hartman, or the death of Robin Williams? How would you feel if Johnny Manziel killed himself? The overwhelming majority of suicides are the result of a long and painful struggle with depression that is either suppressed to avoid social stigma, or is not treated properly for a variety of reasons. People who choose to turn a critical eye are part of the problem, and are really quite pitiful as human beings.

I guess that is what I'm trying to understand. I recognize the mental illness perspective, but the living bear the pain (and even guilt) of having lost someone. For the one who committed suicide, it is over. For the living, there is a wide range of emotions to include even anger. I'm not trying to be judgmental, but trying to grasp the magnitude of the situation. I've known people from afar that have committed suicide, but never someone close.

How about those very close to you, though? A good friend....a close relative? Part of me would be angry about the situation. For example, how could I have helped or prevented it. The living bear the burden.

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How about those very close to you, though? A good friend....a close relative? Part of me would be angry about the situation. For example, how could I have helped or prevented it. The living bear the burden.

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I have never had a close friend or family member kill themselves, but I have casually known someone who did. My reaction was shock and sadness for the person who ended his life and for his family. Much the same as my reaction to the people close to me who have died unexpectedly. I can certainly understand someone feeling anger if a best friend or family member fell to suicide. However, the anger they feel is primarily out of guilt that they were powerless to prevent such an act. It's part of the denial mechanism, and I would imagine that most everyone close to the person must process this in their own way. In the end, there is only grief, sorrow and a sense of loss, Just like when anyone else close to you dies.

Depends on if you believe there is a point to life.

It may be considered rational to think that you literally cannot live another day in agony and pain and suicide is the only way out.

My wife's grandfather and her grandfathers sister both killed themselves about two years apart.

They've gone through various stages of grief, anger and resentment.

The living bear the pain in any death. Every funeral people mourn for themselves bc they no longer have more time with their loved ones. Anger and sadness are common emotions after a suicide, and the anger fades the most; no one can or should tell you how to mourn.

A little conflicted on this...

1. For the person who took their own life, I feel it's a selfish thing and don't show any emotion toward it. No anger, no remorse, no celebration. Just an "eh" attitude because the chances of that person living or dying will have no impact on my life. Probably not a popular view, but it's what I have.

2. I do feel bad for the family and their friends who have to go through the loss and constant questioning to themselves of what they could have done differently.

3. Kind of contradictory to #1, I am thankful that they decided not to go down in a blaze of glory and take others with them.

My Uncle committed suicide almost two years ago, after beating cancer and was unable to deal with the lingering effects.

By far the most difficult part was to witness the devastation that it had on my Aunt, and try to comfort her in any way possible.

Initially I was PISSED at him, but he had to have been in agony and hid it very well. I wish he would have seeked more help and was still with us today, but he made his decision.

I don't understand suicide and do not believe I want to.

I'm afraid that to really understand, I would have had to have been there.

I don't want that.

I mourn for the person who commits suicide and I feel especially sorry for their family. I can imagine the compounding or the grief and then possibly guilt, trying to figure out what you could have done to save them.

It is a tragedy all around.

What MKF said.

Wine is fine, but whiskey's quicker.

There is something inherently wrong with someone that commits suicide out of their own free will; it's devastating to those affected by it and incomprehensible for those that have never been around it.

I'm sure this will illicit an apples to oranges no comparison comment but here goes ..

I do find it selfish and here's my take . We all get depressed about things some of us more than others and we all have different coping mechanisms. We also all have different levels of support for depression. What remains constant is the human spirit inside us all or that will to live we all naturally have. Why do I think it's selfish when a perfectly physically healthy person quits on life? Because I've watched several family members and friends fight diseases that killed them to the bitter end . They fought not for themselves but for the people that loved them . Once again this is my opinion not looking to sway anyone else's . Not trolling not trying to get in a cyber fight with any of you. If you are tough enough to end your life you are certainly tough enough to live it .

A dad of one of my best friends committed suicide when we were kids. Since we kind of walked through that stage of life together, it's something we have discussed quite a bit then and into adulthood. I've seen the pain and rage it caused in my friend as my parents were one of the few non-family people who his mom trusted at that stage of life. In my friend's case, he went somewhere with his mom after school, they came home and his dad's car was in the driveway still running. They had a long driveway, so they weren't right next to his car. My friend got out and ran up to the car to show his dad what he got from the store... only to see blood. His dad had shot himself right there in their driveway. My friend is an amazing guy who has forgiven his father, but as his friend (deep down), it's hard to really accept the way it all went down. I'm sure someone at that low point can't grasp what they are doing or even think straight, and I have to believe he didn't want my friend to be the one who found him... but that is an image that will never go away for my friend. It sucks, and I guess my point is the person in pain doesn't take care of all the problems when they end it. Many times, they just leave others to pick up the pieces.

I had a friend take his life a few years ago. He didn't seem to be depressed, angry, or anything like that. He was financially sound. He did drink a lot, which started in the Navy. He was a truck driver, but home daily since he cared for his elderly mother. He got a dwi and was suspended from his job. 2 weeks later he was gone. He drank, crawled into the tub, and cut each wrist 6 inches. He didn't leave a note. We can only guess that the stigma of the dwi and job suspension put him over the edge. I wish he had reached out. It makes me sad, not angry, that he felt things were that far gone for him.

Last year, my uncle passed away. It was ruled an accidental shooting while cleaning his pistol. None of the family believe that, but we all accept what happened. He was in his mid 80s and had lived a great life. 27 year Navy man, LTCDR-Ret, that was part of the team that started the NIS. He was buried in Arlington overlooking the Pentagon, where he served for 3 years. The thing is, he had medical issues. He had 10 bypasses, a carotid bypass, and various other ailments. Toward the end, he had said he was tired. He was having further issues with body functions shutting down. He said he didn't want to go through llaying in bed and slowly dying, with the doctors prolonging his agony. I can understand his reasoning, but I wish we had been able to say goodbye. I guess with the legal ramifications, that could have been an issue.

Read this recently from "The Third Alternative" by Stephen Covey and it seems relevant here. Paraphrased below:

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In the short story "The Last Judgment", the soul of a brutal murderer is brought before the judgment board of heaven. They call one witness to testify. He is the only witness because he is "the Omniscient God." The defendant is warned not to interrupt the witness -- "He knows everything, so there's no use denying anything."

God verifies the defendant committed the atrocities but tells more. As a child he loved his mother but couldn't show it. At six he lost his only toy, a precious glass marble, and he cried. At seven, he stole a rose so he could give it to a little girl, who grew up and rejected him to marry a rich man. When he was homeless he shared his food with other vagrants. "He was generous and often helpful. He was kind to women, gentle with animals, and kept his word."

Nevertheless, as expected the board condemns the man to everlasting punishment. At one point the defendant asks God, "Why don't you yourself do the judging?" God replies, "Because I know everything. If the judges knew everything, absolutely everything, they couldn't judge either: they would understand everything, and their hearts would ache... I know everything about you. Everything. And that's why I cannot judge you."

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I think when you truly understand someone, it's really hard to judge them. When someone commits suicide, the opportunity to truly understand is lost forever. So when someone we love makes that choice, we won't ever really be able to understand and that is part of what hurts so much.

In the absence of understanding we have to fill in the holes of the story with our own narratives. Because we can't understand, it makes it easier for us to judge and "look down" on their decision.

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I'm sure this will illicit an apples to oranges no comparison comment but here goes ..

I do find it selfish and here's my take . We all get depressed about things some of us more than others and we all have different coping mechanisms. We also all have different levels of support for depression. What remains constant is the human spirit inside us all or that will to live we all naturally have. Why do I think it's selfish when a perfectly physically healthy person quits on life? Because I've watched several family members and friends fight diseases that killed them to the bitter end . They fought not for themselves but for the people that loved them . Once again this is my opinion not looking to sway anyone else's . Not trolling not trying to get in a cyber fight with any of you. If you are tough enough to end your life you are certainly tough enough to live it .

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I'd disagree with you that a person who commits suicide is physically healthy. For some reason we tend to view mental health as separate from physical health and I think that is a faulty conclusion. If you caught a cold or had some other disease, thats not entirely different from a psychological disorder/disease.

Mourned for sure, but it's also ok to be pissed off at the person at the same time. A really good friend of mine found her boyfriend after he hanged himself in their apartment a few years ago. Really sad and I can't imagine what must have been going on in his head, but we're all still really pissed at him for putting her through that knowing she'd be the one to find him. It's been several years and she's only recently started to really move on from it.

Solid post bagger

Thanks for sharing.

The reasons for committing suicide are as varied as the people who do it. We lived next door to an elderly man - who had lost his wife after a particularly difficult battle with cancer.

When younger, he'd been a truck driver based out of Illinois. One winter, he'd taken a blast of ether (used to start the trucks in the winter) to his lungs, so he only had a small portion of lung capacity in one lung, the other was totally disfunctional. He struggled for several years - he'd park his truck halfway down his driveway, so he could rest on his walk to his mailbox.

He had two dogs - an aging doberman and a rottie pup. The dobie had tumors on her stomach, so he had her put to sleep. It must have struck him how easy it was to end her pain, because two days later, he shot himself on his back porch.

Friends mourned him like any death, but in reality we all knew that it was a release for him. I'd see him struggle just to breathe. His kids were living their own lives states away and he'd done everything he wanted to do.

Now, his kids and grandkids might have seen it as selfish, though I doubt it - they weren't even remotely close, and his son went down to the courthouse to take possession of the gun his dad had used.

As someone who has seen several, I find most of it incredibly selfish. Watching the desperation as a family begs you to do something when you can do nothing and the then seeing the devastation set in is truly awful. The emotional toll it takes on people isn't quantifiable. And its not just family, but anyone who encounters the incident. One of my first ride-outs during EMT school was a jumper down in Houston. Guy jumped off a parking garage and was still alive when we arrived on scene. We had to use a scoop stretcher to peel him off the concrete and transport. He died in route to the hospital. I've never known anyone that has committed suicide and I pray I never do.

At the same time, I can only imagine the amount of pain and suffering that drives a person to see death as a cheaper exit. I just wish these people would seek help.

I've thought about this much but I don't have any professional knowledge of these situations. My uncle hung himself years back. He drank his whole life and never really took care of himself. He was a carpenter that did small jobs for money. Diabetes finally caught up with him where he had his leg amputated. When I came back from college breaks to visit I did notice that he switched from drinking beer to drinking hard liquor. I also noticed that his comments were a bit more inappropriate. In the last few weeks leading up to his death he started giving away his items. Family members thought it was strange but never thought he would take his life.

Now, for those that think he was selfish... how so? Sure he affected many by his actions. His brothers and sisters were hurt but how is their pain any different from if he'd died from an accident? How can you blame someone that is going through deep depression and feels like he has nothing? All he had was his work and the amputated leg practically took that away. He had nothing....no kids, never had a spouse... just brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. If they viewed him as being selfish then aren't they the ones being selfish for blaming him for his actions and not helping sooner before he got to that point?

I saw a comment about "seeking help".
Who can help?
Therapy? That's expensive.
Family? Well the truthful fact is that it's not easy taking care of an adult. Especially one that doesn't want to help themselves. My father is dealing with some serious issues now and none of them want to help. But some of them are the same ones that say things like "If I had known, I would've helped".
Alcohol Rehab? Expensive. And funded programs are not for individuals that drink due to depression. They're reserved for the heavy drinkers that have medical dependency issues.

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His brothers and sisters were hurt but how is their pain any different from if he'd died from an accident? How can you blame someone that is going through deep depression and feels like he has nothing?

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Are you speaking for your specific example or generally? If generally, I can tell you that in the case of my buddy, it was probably more difficult for an 8 year old to come to terms with the fact that his father killed himself than if he had died from an accident or a health issue.

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His brothers and sisters were hurt but how is their pain any different from if he'd died from an accident? How can you blame someone that is going through deep depression and feels like he has nothing?

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Are you speaking for your specific example or generally? If generally, I can tell you that in the case of my buddy, it was probably more difficult for an 8 year old to come to terms with the fact that his father killed himself than if he had died from an accident or a health issue.

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Good point. I forgot to mention that this particular situation is nothing like the situation where the guy had a wife and kids. Sorry, I meant to type that part but got side tracked.

The whole selfish argument doesn't pertain to every suicide IMO.

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Now, for those that think he was selfish... how so? Sure he affected many by his actions. His brothers and sisters were hurt but how is their pain any different from if he'd died from an accident?

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I'd say its easier to handle and move on from someone dying due to an accident than to have the "what could I have done differently" or "did he do it because of something I did" questions following the survivors around the rest of their lives.